Xb/pike vs musk/huss

User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by harcha »

princeofcarthage wrote:On a side note more interesting comparison would be skirm harlb vs Musk Huss
china wins
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Garja »

With euro xbow/pike probably musk huss wins.
However with better xbow/pike units suchs as mace/puma or even choku/qiang I think musk/huss loses. In general hard counter combos should win with perfect micro.
Image Image Image
User avatar
European Union Scroogie
Lancer
Posts: 740
Joined: Dec 5, 2015
ESO: Scroogie
GameRanger ID: 10056919

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Scroogie »

Whats split pulling?
Me being slightly ahead vs H2O: Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Scroogie wrote:Whats split pulling?
Using your huss to pull trick your musk.
The thing is you need to have more huss than musks for the pull trick to work, so you need to pull trick groups of 3 musks with your 4 huss. Realistically, that's something you can't do in a real game with musk/huss against bow/pike, but it's useful when you have like 20-25 skirms and 15 goons and you want to escape.
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Hazza54321 »

yeah like dia said you pull trick the 3 musk with the 4 huss and then u pull 6musk with the 3 musk 4 huss and so on
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Kaiserklein »

princeofcarthage wrote:Whether one cares or not doesn't make something less interesting or more.
So it's interesting to compare unit compositions that would basically never get to fight each other, as one of them is never trained..?
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by harcha »

in my experience it is a bad idea to train musk vs mace or aenna or cetan
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Hazza54321 »

well aena cetan and mace are kinda like bows but on roids, likewise with pumas being pikes on roids
Sweden Hawk_Girl
Dragoon
Donator 01
Posts: 419
Joined: Dec 15, 2015

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Hawk_Girl »

"huss beating remaining bows" you all need more nilla in your life
Image
No Flag Astaroth
Howdah
Posts: 1037
Joined: Jul 21, 2019

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Astaroth »

Isn't it a bit sad that the more micro intensive counter comp (bow pike) loses to musk / huss?

This would also be completely balance breaking, if not for the fact that most bow / pike civs can age safely (at least on EP).

I guess from a more or less historical POV (I know, aoe3 and history lol, not like it matters) it makes sense that bow pike gets phased out, but it is a bit silly that even in age2, they ultimately can't compete, meaning that civs like Ger basically have to age to win, in most MUs.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Astaroth wrote:Isn't it a bit sad that the more micro intensive counter comp (bow pike) loses to musk / huss?

This would also be completely balance breaking, if not for the fact that most bow / pike civs can age safely (at least on EP).

I guess from a more or less historical POV (I know, aoe3 and history lol, not like it matters) it makes sense that bow pike gets phased out, but it is a bit silly that even in age2, they ultimately can't compete, meaning that civs like Ger basically have to age to win, in most MUs.
Yes, that's the point lol. Some civs are stronger in late colonial, and you have to age against these civs.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

Well I think it's fine, because by design, bow pike aren't "strong" units. It's not like you usually want to just mass them and win with that unit composition. They're supposed to be archaic, crappier units. You usually go for them because you can mass a lot of them from wood crates (e.g double rax rush) which means you won't lose to musk huss early on because he can't get as many units as you do. Or because you want to abuse the xbow range and sit in base, while trying to age.
So I think they fill their purpose of units you use to get a temporary advantage, especially on EP where xbows were buffed. They shouldn't beat "quality" units like musk/huss in the longer run imo. Just like plain musk/huss shouldn't beat "better quality" units like skirms, goons, falcs etc, eventually. You can see these cheaper / more archaic units as giving you the mass advantage, while the others give you the tech advantage.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Sweden Zutazuta
Howdah
zuta
Posts: 1020
Joined: Apr 11, 2015

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by Zutazuta »

Aizamk wrote:Bow pike only ever loses if you don't have enough pike, because once pike are down the xbow get rekt by the cav.
That's why you want a high enough % of pike in your composition.

I usually go with 100% pike.
Finally, someone with some authority chimes in.
No Flag helln00
Howdah
Posts: 1410
Joined: Jan 28, 2017
ESO: helln00

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by helln00 »

If it was port, you would want to go 100% xbow wouldnt you for that sweet sweet guard upgrade
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by chronique »

Xbow/pik is better only if you are sit in base i would said.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ye for sure, with walls and reinforcement bow/pike is better.
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by chronique »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Ye for sure, with walls and reinforcement bow/pike is better.
I don't take reforcement in consideration, building cause a lot of trouble for mousk/cav with pathing issus.
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by dansil92 »

Reinforcements is legit why china old han sucks so hard. No matter how many pikes you lose you can only replace three at a time
Image
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by chronique »

dansil92 wrote:No matter how many pikes you lose you can only replace three at a time
That's why i dont understand why @Aizamk play china, he can't 100% pik, where spain can.
Germany lordraphael
Pro Player
EWTNWC LAN SilverAdvanced Division WinnerDonator 01
Posts: 2549
Joined: Jun 28, 2015

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by lordraphael »

princeofcarthage wrote:On a side note more interesting comparison would be skirm harlb vs Musk Huss
ill just answer it. skrim halb would shit on musk huss. if you assume perfect micro, but even in a real game skirm halb would win vs musk huss. but why make halb when you can go goons, which hardcounters musk huss far better.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
User avatar
Kiribati princeofcarthage
Retired Contributor
Posts: 8861
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Location: Milky Way!

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by princeofcarthage »

lordraphael wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:On a side note more interesting comparison would be skirm harlb vs Musk Huss
ill just answer it. skrim halb would shit on musk huss. if you assume perfect micro, but even in a real game skirm halb would win vs musk huss. but why make halb when you can go goons, which hardcounters musk huss far better.
Thanks for the answer, ye I don't think halbs are worth making when you have goon/ruyter. Its just a theoretical comparison
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
User avatar
Great Britain chris1089
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2651
Joined: Feb 11, 2017
ESO: chris1089

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by chris1089 »

Skirm halb is fine as Dutch v Japan isn't it?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

chris1089 wrote:Skirm halb is fine as Dutch v Japan isn't it?
No it's not, you need huss against yumis, and ruyters are more useless than halbs to snipe the nagis. You might want to train a batch of halbs to siege shrines, but it's just a worse fighting unit.
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by iNcog »

cav hi is sort of countered by ri hi, like I said earlier imo. but I guess situation can get change so it depends
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss

Post by iNcog »

fascinating topic imo
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV