Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
skirm halb is actually good vs musk/cav. Skirm goons is too but vs like japan nagis tank a lot and you can't really kite away.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
I think skirm pike would basically do a better job at beating musk huss. Pikes are arguably better units than halberdiers.lordraphael wrote:ill just answer it. skrim halb would shit on musk huss. if you assume perfect micro, but even in a real game skirm halb would win vs musk huss. but why make halb when you can go goons, which hardcounters musk huss far better.princeofcarthage wrote:On a side note more interesting comparison would be skirm harlb vs Musk Huss
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
I feel like part of this shouldn't be about the straight up fights, but about the utility that the hussar's mobility offers. The musk huss player can be raiding constantly, which is something the xbow pike player cant do. The snaring ability of the hussars are pretty nice too, as this means that if you win a fight you will win it very decisively, while if you are losing the fight you can just walk away. I feel like this is a bigger deal than it may seem to be at the surface.
For xbow/pike vs musk huss this isn't super relevant, but I feel like musk xbow should actually beat musk huss in a straight up fight. This mobility is imo part of why you end up going for pure musk rather than musk xbow. Once you start mixing in xbows, your opponent can basically mix in hussars without making his army much weaker in the straight up engagement, which means he can basically enjoy all the mobility benefits with no drawback.
For xbow/pike vs musk huss this isn't super relevant, but I feel like musk xbow should actually beat musk huss in a straight up fight. This mobility is imo part of why you end up going for pure musk rather than musk xbow. Once you start mixing in xbows, your opponent can basically mix in hussars without making his army much weaker in the straight up engagement, which means he can basically enjoy all the mobility benefits with no drawback.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Bows are nice in musk wars because you have the bow advantage and you can kite then but I'm quite sure bow/musk loses to musk/huss. The huss are going to tank a lot and kill some bows while bows don't really dps more than musks.RefluxSemantic wrote:I feel like part of this shouldn't be about the straight up fights, but about the utility that the hussar's mobility offers. The musk huss player can be raiding constantly, which is something the xbow pike player cant do. The snaring ability of the hussars are pretty nice too, as this means that if you win a fight you will win it very decisively, while if you are losing the fight you can just walk away. I feel like this is a bigger deal than it may seem to be at the surface.
For xbow/pike vs musk huss this isn't super relevant, but I feel like musk xbow should actually beat musk huss in a straight up fight. This mobility is imo part of why you end up going for pure musk rather than musk xbow. Once you start mixing in xbows, your opponent can basically mix in hussars without making his army much weaker in the straight up engagement, which means he can basically enjoy all the mobility benefits with no drawback.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
I feel like in that scenario you can just continuously kite the huss without taking much fire from the opposing hussars. Unless you have a very large amount of xbows (which means they have a lot of hussars), then it might change again. I feel like for example 30 musk 10 xbows should beat 30 musk 5 huss.[Armag] diarouga wrote:Bows are nice in musk wars because you have the bow advantage and you can kite then but I'm quite sure bow/musk loses to musk/huss. The huss are going to tank a lot and kill some bows while bows don't really dps more than musks.RefluxSemantic wrote:I feel like part of this shouldn't be about the straight up fights, but about the utility that the hussar's mobility offers. The musk huss player can be raiding constantly, which is something the xbow pike player cant do. The snaring ability of the hussars are pretty nice too, as this means that if you win a fight you will win it very decisively, while if you are losing the fight you can just walk away. I feel like this is a bigger deal than it may seem to be at the surface.
For xbow/pike vs musk huss this isn't super relevant, but I feel like musk xbow should actually beat musk huss in a straight up fight. This mobility is imo part of why you end up going for pure musk rather than musk xbow. Once you start mixing in xbows, your opponent can basically mix in hussars without making his army much weaker in the straight up engagement, which means he can basically enjoy all the mobility benefits with no drawback.
Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Controversially i do like mixing a handful halbs in with my skirms against Aztec, sometimes Russia, when playing as Dutch. Annoying to micro vs coss/coyo so its my lazy answer.
I think the answer to musk/cav VS. Melee inf/ranged inf really comes down to how good the RI is
A good example is yamabushi-yumi, which dumps on pretty much everything because both units are just outclassing musks and hussars
I think the answer to musk/cav VS. Melee inf/ranged inf really comes down to how good the RI is
A good example is yamabushi-yumi, which dumps on pretty much everything because both units are just outclassing musks and hussars
Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
In big numbers musk/bow should beat musk/huss quite clearly. In small numbers probably the dps of huss exceeds the xbow one.[Armag] diarouga wrote:Bows are nice in musk wars because you have the bow advantage and you can kite then but I'm quite sure bow/musk loses to musk/huss. The huss are going to tank a lot and kill some bows while bows don't really dps more than musks.RefluxSemantic wrote:I feel like part of this shouldn't be about the straight up fights, but about the utility that the hussar's mobility offers. The musk huss player can be raiding constantly, which is something the xbow pike player cant do. The snaring ability of the hussars are pretty nice too, as this means that if you win a fight you will win it very decisively, while if you are losing the fight you can just walk away. I feel like this is a bigger deal than it may seem to be at the surface.
For xbow/pike vs musk huss this isn't super relevant, but I feel like musk xbow should actually beat musk huss in a straight up fight. This mobility is imo part of why you end up going for pure musk rather than musk xbow. Once you start mixing in xbows, your opponent can basically mix in hussars without making his army much weaker in the straight up engagement, which means he can basically enjoy all the mobility benefits with no drawback.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
theres no way skirm pike is better than halb skirm, not only vs musk huss but in general. you pretty much never can fight halbs straight up with huss. Halbs are beastly in melee combat, while pikes arent.RefluxSemantic wrote:I think skirm pike would basically do a better job at beating musk huss. Pikes are arguably better units than halberdiers.lordraphael wrote:ill just answer it. skrim halb would shit on musk huss. if you assume perfect micro, but even in a real game skirm halb would win vs musk huss. but why make halb when you can go goons, which hardcounters musk huss far better.princeofcarthage wrote:On a side note more interesting comparison would be skirm harlb vs Musk Huss
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
i agree. the only advantage that pikes have is the speed, which can prove significant in some situationslordraphael wrote:theres no way skirm pike is better than halb skirm, not only vs musk huss but in general. you pretty much never can fight halbs straight up with huss. Halbs are beastly in melee combat, while pikes arent.RefluxSemantic wrote:I think skirm pike would basically do a better job at beating musk huss. Pikes are arguably better units than halberdiers.Show hidden quotes
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
I know this has been suggested before, but I really think EP should look into making (non-veteran) halbs available in age 2 for Dutch.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
noovi12 wrote:I know this has been suggested before, but I really think EP should look into making (non-veteran) halbs available in age 2 for Dutch.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Id have the run the numbers again, but against cav pikes have far better stats for their cost than halberdeers do.harcha wrote:i agree. the only advantage that pikes have is the speed, which can prove significant in some situationslordraphael wrote:theres no way skirm pike is better than halb skirm, not only vs musk huss but in general. you pretty much never can fight halbs straight up with huss. Halbs are beastly in melee combat, while pikes arent.Show hidden quotes
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Nah that's just wrong. Even vs cav I'm pretty sure pikes aren't more cost efficient than halbs. And against any other unit halbs are better as they actually deal damage. Plus you don't have to tech vet halbs. Saying skirm / vet pike would be better than skirm / halb just can't be right.
The only advantages pikes have over halbs are basically the speed and siege.
The only advantages pikes have over halbs are basically the speed and siege.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
noRefluxSemantic wrote:Id have the run the numbers again, but against cav pikes have far better stats for their cost than halberdeers do.harcha wrote:i agree. the only advantage that pikes have is the speed, which can prove significant in some situationsShow hidden quotes
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Well, a veteran pikeman deals 48 damage per hit to cav, a halberdeer 50. Halberdeers are actually 40% more expensive. They do have 40% more HP and I know comparing stats like these don't give the full picture, but holy shit halbs are bad at doing what they should be doing.kevinitalien wrote:noRefluxSemantic wrote:Id have the run the numbers again, but against cav pikes have far better stats for their cost than halberdeers do.Show hidden quotes
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
halb at 20% melee resistance while the pike at 10%, which makes it much better against cavRefluxSemantic wrote:Well, a veteran pikeman deals 48 damage per hit to cav, a halberdeer 50. Halberdeers are actually 40% more expensive. They do have 40% more HP and I know comparing stats like these don't give the full picture, but holy shit halbs are bad at doing what they should be doing.kevinitalien wrote:noShow hidden quotes
Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
I mean isnt 90% of the problem with halbs are their speed? Changdaos are considered decent purely just for the speed alone.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Is this true? The wiki puts them both at 0.10 melee resist.kevinitalien wrote:halb at 20% melee resistance while the pike at 10%, which makes it much better against cavRefluxSemantic wrote:Well, a veteran pikeman deals 48 damage per hit to cav, a halberdeer 50. Halberdeers are actually 40% more expensive. They do have 40% more HP and I know comparing stats like these don't give the full picture, but holy shit halbs are bad at doing what they should be doing.Show hidden quotes
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
I just checked in game so yesRefluxSemantic wrote:Is this true? The wiki puts them both at 0.10 melee resist.kevinitalien wrote:halb at 20% melee resistance while the pike at 10%, which makes it much better against cavShow hidden quotes
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Halbs should either have changdao speed, or be cheaper. 50f 60c would be a better price for what they can actually do.
And an x3 vs cav!
And an x3 vs cav!
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
No, I dont think so. Halbs actually have terrible stats for their cost. They're obviously worse than musks at just dealing damage, and they dont even do much better than musks in melee mode.helln00 wrote:I mean isnt 90% of the problem with halbs are their speed? Changdaos are considered decent purely just for the speed alone.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
it's worth its price, it's just that you can have goons instead, so it's rarely usedImperial Noob wrote:Halbs should either have changdao speed, or be cheaper. 50f 60c would be a better price for what they can actually do.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
So nerf goons instead?kevinitalien wrote:it's worth its price, it's just that you can have goons instead, so it's rarely usedImperial Noob wrote:Halbs should either have changdao speed, or be cheaper. 50f 60c would be a better price for what they can actually do.
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Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
it's already done, but in any case the goons are more mobile and shoot from a distance, so it's much more efficientImperial Noob wrote:So nerf goons instead?kevinitalien wrote:it's worth its price, it's just that you can have goons instead, so it's rarely usedImperial Noob wrote:Halbs should either have changdao speed, or be cheaper. 50f 60c would be a better price for what they can actually do.
Re: Xb/pike vs musk/huss
Idk Halbs are only 25 resources more than changdaos for twice the base damage, 50 vs 35 damage to cav and 2/3rd more hp. I think that is pretty fair.RefluxSemantic wrote:No, I dont think so. Halbs actually have terrible stats for their cost. They're obviously worse than musks at just dealing damage, and they dont even do much better than musks in melee mode.helln00 wrote:I mean isnt 90% of the problem with halbs are their speed? Changdaos are considered decent purely just for the speed alone.
I think the biggest downside is speed
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