Port 5 Goon Semi-FF

[forgrin]

Been working on this strategy a little, mostly for bashing the skirm-ulhan bots on RE. It is the same BO as the Port Cav semi, except it uses the extra XP to fit an age 1 shipment in without slowing down the build much.

This is meant for land TP maps, and is only really good on a wood start. It is specifically used to counter Germany and might not be worth using against other civs.

Card Order

Early Goons - 700g - 600g -700w - 5 goons - 5 mams

Play ages 1-2 as with the huss semi (only difference is mining another 50g for the goons, plus training 5 goons in transition).

Upon aging to 3, ship 5 goons and train Cass. You should hit up only slightly later than Germany, aggressively hunt down their ulhan as much as possible before 8 skirm comes out (which will almost certainly be his first shipment; if he ships 9 ulhan you just win).

Switch almost all vills to coin and produce vills from 1 TC plus a couple batches of Cass. Assuming you kill some ulhans, you should have the XP ready to ship mams once you have 1k coin.

The plan is to pull off a 5 huss semi, but with 5 Goon instead and training 5 more in transition. With this plus shipping 5 Goon first in Fortress, and likely picking off some overly aggressive ulhan that expected huss, you should have a sizeable mass advantage in early fortress that you can transition into a win if the German player reacts in the most straightforward way.

It is very important to play aggressively with your goons in age 2/transition; you have a huge tech advantage vs his only unit and, if played correctly, you can severely limit his Cav mass. If Germany makes another Cav batch for whatever reason, stick with your plan; 5 goons beat 14 ulhan just as easily as they beat 9 ulhan.

Seeing full goon, many German players will ship 8skirm-7skirm or might even try Jaegars. Transitioning directly from Goon production into a hard mam - Cass switch on your second shipment will leave Ports with a hard counter comp that snares, and if Germany gets caught before they can react to mams you can win the game easily.

Counterplay:
- If Germany scouts your coin switch (you should be able to deny the scouting with your goons) they can respond with black riders, which means that you'll be on the back foot until you can get 8 Cass shipment out.
- If Germany pushes you very early with 8 skirm shipment before you get mams, be patient and run away with your goons (you only have goons at this point). With a safe coin mine you should be able to stall long enough for mams to come out.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Eh, no offense I'm sure you've spent a lot of time working on this strategy but it's absolute garbage :(

You're getting 5 colonial goons instead of 5 huss (and you'll need these huss later on against Germany) at the cost of eco theory, which is like 2-3v. If you like to open stable, just train 5 huss and defend the raids (you'll send MM if needed) and then go huss/goon in age 3 with more eco.

Anyway, if he sees a 5 goon opening in age 2, he'll just get a WW batch and outmass you with skirm/WW thanks to his superior eco.

[forgrin]

Eh, no offense I'm sure you've spent a lot of time working on this strategy but it's absolute garbage :(

You're getting 5 colonial goons instead of 5 huss (and you'll need these huss later on against Germany) at the cost of eco theory, which is like 2-3v.

I spent longer doing the write-up than making the strategy, it's ctrl-c ctrl-v Port Huss semi, just with goons and knowing that you can't do it without the TP start. Not exactly rocket science.

And you get 10 goons (making 5 in transition) which gets your goon mass on a headstart, which is worth the tradeoff imo, specifically if you're going early mams. With EP 4 mams I don't know if this is viable though, so there's that.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ye 4 mams isn't that great. You'd rather train huss and get the vet upgrade. You'll have more eco (and the same timing) and it's more flexible too.

[forgrin]

Ye 4 mams isn't that great. You'd rather train huss and get the vet upgrade. You'll have more eco (and the same timing) and it's more flexible too.

Oh I definitely agree that scaling-wise, if you can get a nice vet huss mass it's better.

What do you think about 5 huss vs 14 ulhan though? I always thought 14 ulhan was very annoying to deal with because Germany barely ages later with more eco and your 5 huss don't threaten his ulhan at all. At least colonial goons discourage that.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ye 4 mams isn't that great. You'd rather train huss and get the vet upgrade. You'll have more eco (and the same timing) and it's more flexible too.

Oh I definitely agree that scaling-wise, if you can get a nice vet huss mass it's better.

What do you think about 5 huss vs 14 ulhan though? I always thought 14 ulhan was very annoying to deal with because Germany barely ages later with more eco and your 5 huss don't threaten his ulhan at all. At least colonial goons discourage that.

If he trains more than 5 uhlans, then you can make 10 huss, and with mm you'll always be fine.

[forgrin]

Idk I feel if you make 10 huss you just give Germany such an advantage. Making 5 more huss sucks so much for Ports whereas for Germany going 3sw-2sw-700g or something making 5 more ulhan barely slows them down.

[deleted_user]

Cool strat. It's even better because diarouga doesn't like it.

Thanks for the write up.

[forgrin]

Cool strat. It's even better because diarouga doesn't like it.

Thanks for the write up.

It's because he has an eco theory fetish and this build exclude that.

[Black_Duck]

Cool strat. It's even better because diarouga doesn't like it.

Thanks for the write up.

It's because he has an eco theory fetish and this build exclude that.

I think you should download ep and try it

[[Armag] diarouga]

Idk I feel if you make 10 huss you just give Germany such an advantage. Making 5 more huss sucks so much for Ports whereas for Germany going 3sw-2sw-700g or something making 5 more ulhan barely slows them down.

It doesn't give Germany any advantage as you want to have hussars against Germany (especially for a huss/goon timing).

[[Armag] diarouga]

Cool strat. It's even better because diarouga doesn't like it.

Thanks for the write up.

It's because he has an eco theory fetish and this build exclude that.

Not really, I usually skip the age 1 shipment if I don't take a TP, and I ofc go ATP/schooners on good maps, but age 2 goons is a terrible shipment especially if you go for a semi ff lol. If you wanted to go for a goon/huss timing in age 2, I'd say why not, it's an anti meta strat, but you're literally sending a shipment to train 5 goons...

[Garja]

Ye unless you have perfect read that opponent is going 100% cav start, early goon is a waste. And even then the strategical advantage you might get almost never compensates for the lost shipment.
Eco theory is actually good.

[querty]

Been working on this strategy a little, mostly for bashing the skirm-ulhan bots on RE.

Context.

[Kaiserklein]

Basically just don't ship an age 1 card unless it's atp or schooners

[[Armag] diarouga]

Basically just don't ship an age 1 card unless it's atp or schooners

Eco theory if you build a TP in age 1.

[Kaiserklein]

Which you just don't

[[Armag] diarouga]

Depends on the MU.

[Kaiserklein]

No, it's bad. Going TP and sending eco theory is the kind of BS that makes people say ports are bad, cause yeah if you play like that they're bad

[Astaroth]

Can you explain why it's bad? Does it slow you down too much?

[Garja]

Even without TP is a good card. It starts slow but it quickly becomes better than 3v.
I wouldnt send it if naked FFing.

[Hazza54321]

Idk I feel if you make 10 huss you just give Germany such an advantage. Making 5 more huss sucks so much for Ports whereas for Germany going 3sw-2sw-700g or something making 5 more ulhan barely slows them down.

Try the 5 huss +5/10 pike semi, it doesnt slow you down much as pikes are low food and you use the wood crates.

[Kaiserklein]

Can you explain why it's bad? Does it slow you down too much?

TP means you age a vil later, so 25s slower. You get nothing from the xp until later, unlike ger or fr who gets the vil shipment earlier. Aging a vil later also means you'll train 1 less vil from your second tc, which kinda negates eco theory if you send it.
Ports are just rather slow early on, they usually keep up by sending crates. Going eco theory and aging a vil late is a great way to be behind the whole game.

[Astaroth]

That makes sense. Ports do seem relatively strong when you negate their early game weakness via crates. In contrast, going for a long-term investment with a civ that already does well beyond 10 minutes due to free TCs etc seems less ideal.

[chronique]

Is it worth too send 300w and take 1 (or 2 tp)? It's only a xp trade of in the situation.