Land grab?

[Jaeger]

i just took out 600g and 600w from my spain deck since i decided to give up on bs semi builds :S and i was gonna put in mill and plantation upgrades.... Until i remembered land grab. Mills and plantations cost 40% less. That means mills cost only 240w and plantations cost 480. Why dont people use this awesome card?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Because when you don't need mills before 25min and at this point, an eco card is much better.

[Marco1698]

I wouldn't take out 600w tho

[lemmings121]

i just took out 600g and 600w from my spain deck since i decided to give up on bs semi builds :S and i was gonna put in mill and plantation upgrades.... Until i remembered land grab. Mills and plantations cost 40% less. That means mills cost only 240w and plantations cost 480. Why dont people use this awesome card?

I''ve seen people using this on low hunts/mines map where they expected to be needed to transition to mill/plant earlier then usual....
but i''m not sure tho, you have to build 3 mills + 2 plants just to make it worth 1000w wood as a fortress shipment (probably when you would send this)

[zoom]

Clearly the proper usage for this shipment is as the opener with Chinese...

[Jaeger]

Because when you don''t need mills before 25min and at this point, an eco card is much better.

But I already have refrigeration and I don''t have room in my deck for royal mint. The only eco cards I can put in is mill and plantation upgrades, and I was thinking maybe land grab is better than one of them, since if you transition to mills more succesfully than your enemy, you win. It''s like factories, you also don''t need them before 25 minutes and you use them even less often than you build a mill

[[Armag] diarouga]

Because when you dont need mills before 25min and at this point, an eco card is much better.

But I already have refrigeration and I dont have room in my deck for royal mint. The only eco cards I can put in is mill and plantation upgrades, and I was thinking maybe land grab is better than one of them, since if you transition to mills more succesfully than your enemy, you win. Its like factories, you also dont need them before 25 minutes and you use them even less often than you build a mill

Even an age 1 eco card is better, I think you have a 10% mills up.

[Garja]

normally when the transition time comes you will have 20-30 idle vills that were previously gathering food. Wood income is not a problem there (especially if you researched the 2nd and 3rd wood ups which you should whenever you can afford it). The real issue is to get the food income rolling again as fast as possible. Mill upgrade does that.
Refrigeration is indeed better but then again what's the point of land grab?

[Einfein]

i just took out 600g and 600w from my spain deck since i decided to give up on bs semi builds :S and i was gonna put in mill and plantation upgrades.... Until i remembered land grab. Mills and plantations cost 40% less. That means mills cost only 240w and plantations cost 480. Why dont people use this awesome card?

I''ve used it in team games and occasionally it can be a life saver. Specifically, if I''m low on wood for some reason or even worse, I''ve just been pushed off hunts it allows me to get some mills up asap. Not the best situation, but it beats having zero food income. Also I''ve used it in the late team game just for switching to plantations when gold mines are gone or unavailable to me. The amount of wood saved can be helpful, especially if I''m trying to buy the more expensive unit upgrades in the late game.

[cohenski]

I have land grab in some decks. Decks where I know I will be stuck age 2 the whole game and have nothing better that fits in age 1. Examples of games that stay age 2 forever would be like Sioux mirror or Aztec mirror.

[gibson]

I have land grab in some decks. Decks where I know I will be stuck age 2 the whole game and have nothing better that fits in age 1. Examples of games that stay age 2 forever would be like Sioux mirror or Aztec mirror.

If you''re gonna be stuck in age two the whole game advanced Plantation is better since it decreases mill cost to 200 instead of 240 and Plantation cost is irrelevant

[yurashic]

When you transition to mills and plantations it is usially at the time when shipments take ages to arrive, because for each shipment up to 20 you need more and more exp. If you are in such position, shipping upgrades for res or for army is much more valuable than a random mill/plantation cost decrease card.

[momuuu]

In most games you're gonna want to not transition to mills (1v1), because that tends to be game. If you do, shipping something liek 1000w would be better still I think. And you probably want upgrade cards at that point in the game. Long term effects.

[thebritish]

before i always had mill and plantantion card in my deck.
Now i have removed them because i dont get enough shipments to use them

[adderbrain5]

Clearly the proper usage for this shipment is as the opener with Chinese...

surpised to see your name by this post. Yea I used to do that actually. And it seemed the most successful BO for me wth Chinese

[adderbrain5]

One time some time back a really legendaryplayer was interviewed and asked what his favorite card was. I recall it being the most legendary player at the time and so I want to say it was h2o ... When asked what his favorite card is he answered "land grab" ... And I was sort of like hell yea and sort of like WTF? And m stance about land grab is pretty much there to this day
Actually now that I think if it it may have been Goodspeed ???

[comegetsome]

Land grab is OP in teamgames. Think abt maps like texas. It allows easier transiotion into plantation / mills and they build faster. So u can get their upgrades faster as well. Send it after refrigeration in most cases. But its better than 15% food cuz u dont even have mills setup yet. Its not needed on most maps but its a good card to have in deck just in case low res map or if opponents contain you. I even use it on deccan to get op booms.

[Garja]

Why in team games (that are more boomy) and not in 1v1 xD
If it's not good in 1v1 it is even less in team.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Why in team games (that are more boomy) and not in 1v1 xD
If it''s not good in 1v1 it is even less in team.

+1, that''s actually a ressource shipment, an eco card is even better in team^^

[comegetsome]

Ofc refrigeration and royal mint better but land grab is way more useful on some maps and better than age 1 eco cards . Also think about snowball effect. You get mills plantation faster and their upgrades faster also.
In v1 I guess u can send army or army upgrades cards to get map control. And they don't rly get to 3 tc Nd mill plantations.

[drac3130]

It's like why doesn't anyone take the "fast manor" building card. It just doesn't make mathematical sense.

Mill Savings = 160

Plantation Savings = 270

3 Mills x 160 = 320 + 3 Plants x 270= 810 = 1130 Wood saved > 1000 Wood Shipment

Now, if you factor in the fact that it takes much longer to build 6 pieces of infastructure and than to collect 1000 wood from crates, you would be better off shipping crates. Furthermore, you have to be extremely sure that you won't have access to additional mines and hunts for this card to work mathematically...if you send it and then take control of a new hunt...you lost a lot of value. Furthermore, you need to send this card before any mills or plants are made, so you have to send a card in anticipation of savings instead of instant benefit, which can be game changing in the 3rd age and beyond. If you end up making a ton of mills and plants...you will be likely in the Industrial Age, in which case 2 factories for most civs will be you first choice of shipment...during which you will be building Mills and Plants in the background...again, making this card very hard to sneak in. In a 1v1 you are very likely to send this care too late to the point you are pushing out indisputably better shipments or too early in which case you are not getting a great benefit instantly which puts you behind your opponent untill all 6 building are up.

[Good ol Ivan]

It''s like why doesn''t anyone take the "fast manor" building card. It just doesn''t make mathematical sense.

Mill Savings = 160

Plantation Savings = 270

3 Mills x 160 = 320 + 3 Plants x 270= 810 = 1130 Wood saved >' 1000 Wood Shipment

your math is wrong
IIRC Land grab saves 40% value of wood. Which is 160 for mills and 320 for plantations.
3 * 160 + 3 * 320 = 9 * 160 = 1440 wood (...also mills/plants are built slightly faster). Even so I''d agree 1000 wood is better as it''s so much more versatile, but land grab being an age 1 card, doesn''t hurt either. It''s a viable shipment to have in most decks with most European civs.

[SaDe]

I'd leave the 600 wood in your deck for tp's and upgrades for tp's

[momuuu]

Its like why doesnt anyone take the "fast manor" building card. It just doesnt make mathematical sense.

Mill Savings = 160

Plantation Savings = 270

3 Mills x 160 = 320 + 3 Plants x 270= 810 = 1130 Wood saved > 1000 Wood Shipment

your math is wrong
IIRC Land grab saves 40% value of wood. Which is 160 for mills and 320 for plantations.
3 * 160 + 3 * 320 = 9 * 160 = 1440 wood (...also mills/plants are built slightly faster). Even so Id agree 1000 wood is better as its so much more versatile, but land grab being an age 1 card, doesnt hurt either. Its a viable shipment to have in most decks with most European civs.

well the point it, by the time you ship land grab youd probably prefer an eco card like eco theory or food silos.

[drac3130]

Its like why doesnt anyone take the "fast manor" building card. It just doesnt make mathematical sense.

Mill Savings = 160

Plantation Savings = 270

3 Mills x 160 = 320 + 3 Plants x 270= 810 = 1130 Wood saved >' 1000 Wood Shipment

your math is wrong
IIRC Land grab saves 40% value of wood. Which is 160 for mills and 320 for plantations.
3 * 160 + 3 * 320 = 9 * 160 = 1440 wood (...also mills/plants are built slightly faster). Even so Id agree 1000 wood is better as its so much more versatile, but land grab being an age 1 card, doesnt hurt either. Its a viable shipment to have in most decks with most European civs.

*Facepalm* I dont know where I got my number but you are right. However, even as 1440 shipment overall, I would be inclined to say that you really need a specific BO for this to work since the point that i made earlier in that it takes a while to reap all of the benefits of Land Grab compared to other shipments still stands. However, many people like to sneak in Eco Theory or an Age 1 Upgrade Card sometime between Age 3 and Age 4, perhaps thats when Land Grab would be very useful to consider.