russia is so one dimensional is it not

[Jaeger]

What about adding a big trickle card for Russia in age 2 to offset the lack of 5v? Food trickle might make the most sense, but that might be too OP since Russian hunts will last significantly longer.
Also, what about making the Westernization tech available in the church without having to send a card? (maybe need to make it more expensive)

No offense, but horrible idea. Russia has amazing eco scaling and a great age2, one of the very best. They certainly don't need an eco boost.

I think that one of the reasons Russia doesn't have as many options is because of no 5v card, so this was supposed to make up for it; it's not for imporving lategame eco. If Russia send this card they will have an even more OP late colonial, but it will also give the enemy a lot of time to either age or push the BH.

[Jets]

Well, you can also do the cav archer + strelet combo in a semi ff, I sometimes do that against brits and Japan. You end up with better units if u play your cards correctly, besides you want your strelets to be optimal counters against musks/ashis.

[helln00]

I think the problem with russia and its FI build is that russia scale with time, not with aging up necessarily so what ends up happening is players control the map and drag the game in colo so that the russian eco can outscale the opponents more easily.

If we want russia to play pass age 2 often times its against very boomy civs which means that russia is really vulnerable if they cant outboom them, which they cant.

I think a way to make russia less reliant on age 2 would be something like slow down blockhouse construction but give it more HP so that they have an option of hunkering down and build up the eco that can support their age 4 composition

[chris1089]

Pretty sure this would just make containing even stronger @helln00

[dansil92]

There just doesn't seem to be anything that makes russia more diverse that doesnt make their meta play stronger

[helln00]

Pretty sure this would just make containing even stronger @helln00

idk if say the build time is such that a 1 vil blockhouse drop results in a timing where most ff civ can have a decent defend I think that changes the play enough.

Like what I think is needed first is a redesign somehow to make the contain somewhat more seperated from the rush. Like maybe in order to have that very early 5 cossack you need to have like 4 vils building it and but you can build at home and its much more defendable or something. Or make sevastapol increase the blockhouse hp instead so that its a more telegraphed thing that russia is going for the longer game.

[chris1089]

Also a longer build time makes it pretty vulnerable to nat rushes.

[helln00]

Also a longer build time makes it pretty vulnerable to nat rushes.

hmm yes that is true, damn you russia and your one dimensional power

[chris1089]

Also a longer build time makes it pretty vulnerable to nat rushes.

hmm yes that is true, damn you russia and your one dimensional power

I'd like to make them have more options too.

[louis293]

i have a noob question, is it possible to cav start as russia in some match up ? something like 5coss then 700 gold (or vice versa), trying to outmass cav opponent, to raid then making some strelets to timing push with boyars ?

[fightinfrenchman]

i have a noob question, is it possible to cav start as russia in some match up ? something like 5coss then 700 gold (or vice versa), trying to outmass cav opponent, to raid then making some strelets to timing push with boyars ?

Anything is possible if you put your mind to it

[[Armag] diarouga]

i have a noob question, is it possible to cav start as russia in some match up ? something like 5coss then 700 gold (or vice versa), trying to outmass cav opponent, to raid then making some strelets to timing push with boyars ?

Not really tbh. You don't have to eco to train both cav and infantry with Russia so if you open cav you'll have to make cav only for a lot of time. Besides you don't really have the eco to get 5 coss batches. I can't think of a situation where cav start would be better.

[richard]

i have a noob question, is it possible to cav start as russia in some match up ?

Yes, it is possible.

[blackout]

is it possible to cav start as russia in some match up ?

I send 5cos 4cos 700w sometimes vs civs like france who cav semi. Works pretty good dunno if it makes sense tho

[dansil92]

It is possible to get 2 full batchesof 5 cossacks and ship 5 & 4 for 19 cossacks at about 7:05, but its not super relevant to do so in 1v1,whereas in team games you can abuse this pretty badly. Cant really train infantry, at all, until 700 wood afterwards

[fei123456]

Russis is a civ that can have quite versatile strategies IN THEORY. But their poor early eco makes most of them unavailable.

[Good ol Ivan]

I feel like this will be a silly suggestion, but what if Russian Halbs were even cheaper?
I don't think anyone ever masses Halbs as Russia, would give them some variety..

[louis293]

another question, is there some sort of russian fast forteress oprichnik to counter japan schrine boom ? (maybe sending falcs at home with musks/halb if japan tries to punish age up) i struggle to rush, people sometimes send cm and contain doesn't work cause japan just don't need map control and i have no good siege to kill schrines and it take some time before having the eco to spam endless and idle endless.

[harcha]

@louis293
oprichnicks can be useful vs japan, but usually you will see them after russia has had a successful colonial play. going straight to III as russia is kind of weak and this MU is no exception

you are correct to assert that it is hard to rush japan. this is why you only wanna end up in this matchup on maps where you have additional eco options (stagecoach/sea) to make your contain stronger

[helln00]

maybe we have been thinking about how to change russia wrong. They are strong on maps with no tp or other alternative source of income so instead of changing russia we should make other civ slightly more sturdy and then buff other russian options on tp and water maps.

[harcha]

maybe we have been thinking about how to change russia wrong. They are strong on maps with no tp or other alternative source of income so instead of changing russia we should make other civ slightly more sturdy and then buff other russian options on tp and water maps.

That seems like a roundabout way of making russia less one-dimensional. Honestly I don't even care that they are one-dimensional, why shouldn't one out of 14...16 civs be specifically like russia is now? Also russia water ain't that bad and the early BH means that you take control of a particular TP socket.

[Squamiger]

another question, is there some sort of russian fast forteress oprichnik to counter japan schrine boom ? (maybe sending falcs at home with musks/halb if japan tries to punish age up) i struggle to rush, people sometimes send cm and contain doesn't work cause japan just don't need map control and i have no good siege to kill schrines and it take some time before having the eco to spam endless and idle endless.

1. play russia vs japan
2. age to 3 while japan shrine booms
3. make opris to start sieging shrines
4. 35 veteran ashigaru and 2 flaming arrows are in your base
5. ???
6. resign

[louis293]

another question, is there some sort of russian fast forteress oprichnik to counter japan schrine boom ? (maybe sending falcs at home with musks/halb if japan tries to punish age up) i struggle to rush, people sometimes send cm and contain doesn't work cause japan just don't need map control and i have no good siege to kill schrines and it take some time before having the eco to spam endless and idle endless.

1. play russia vs japan
2. age to 3 while japan shrine booms
3. make opris to start sieging shrines
4. 35 veteran ashigaru and 2 flaming arrows are in your base
5. ???
6. resign

yeah u are rigth i tested it today it was something similar like that xD

[alistairpeter]

Can't you just give them a fast age to3? You don't get the 3 vill in age one, but you don't really need it bc your eco catches up pretty quickly. I don't see what would hold them back from trickle, 700 wood, 700 gold. Maybe get a tp like other ff civs. Train musks in transition and get vet musks once aged, and send 2 falcs. I've lost to this kind of thing before, it feels similar to when france does it.

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

Can't you just give them a fast age to3? You don't get the 3 vill in age one, but you don't really need it bc your eco catches up pretty quickly. I don't see what would hold them back from trickle, 700 wood, 700 gold. Maybe get a tp like other ff civs. Train musks in transition and get vet musks once aged, and send 2 falcs. I've lost to this kind of thing before, it feels similar to when france does it.

They have a fast age 3. The problem is that they can't semi-ff cause they don't get a 5 vills shipments, they can't ff because they don't have enough eco early on. In both case they need to upgrade their stelets and their musks (and need a lot of pop to spam shipments), and they don't have the eco for that in the early game.