Russia - 1st shipment in age 2

[_DB_]

So,
We all know Russia is one of the weakest civs.

Many players send 5 cossacks or 13 strelets as 1st shipment in age 2, but is this really viable? Are those units more worth than sending resources/eco card?

Will Russia win more easier with those units? Because I actually think that on high level, most know how to win against Russia.

Problem with Russia is that it can not focus on economy while being aggressive in early game. Must you be actually aggressive? Will focusing on economy while neglecting early military mass will win you a game in a better way?

Q. When is Russia more likely to win?
A)Sending Unit Shipment first
B)Sending resources or eco card

If answer is B, explain the answer you voted in the poll.

I'm assuming this topic to be on land maps.

[Mr_Bramboy]

We all know Russia is one of the weakest civs.

Russia is the best civ after iro and otto actually :sleepingeggplant:

[momuuu]

5 cossacks have so much value (375f, 375c) that you kinda want this powerspike as early as possible where it matters the most. On the other hand, 700w is always a nice first shipment.

I think it depends on your goal. Do you want to do a timing push, or put on the hurt as early as possible? I think both scenarios exist in some mus.

[Jaeger]

The 5 Cossacks first are really good a lot of the time because

1) Vs some civs like French they allow you to mess up their first batch of units
2) It allows you to scout everything that your opponent is doing, and gives you the option to rush if they are cutting corners.

[danno527]

The 5 Cossacks first are really good a lot of the time because

1) Vs some civs like French they allow you to mess up their first batch of units
2) It allows you to scout everything that your opponent is doing, and gives you the option to rush if they are cutting corners.

Ovi is right, 5 cossack allows you to control the pace of game. The only time that you don''t send it is when you know you won''t be able to do damage and where a timing pressure is better. In that case, 1100 wood (400+700) should be spend on 2nd blockhouse or stable houses and a TP or two and of course steel traps. 2 early TPs for a timing pressure is really strong as it basically allows you to send 700f or 700c rights away and then military shipments.

Spice trade is never really that good as Russia in my opinion as it give the same bonus as steel traps but for 3x (700res vs 250) the cost. Typically it is only going to be worth a 3-4 vill shipment early which does''t give as much of a boost as any other villager shipment early, which is when a vill shipment really matters.

[[Armag] diarouga]

5 cossak (never 13 strels), followed by 700w in 80% of the games is the best because it prevents you from raids+ you can fb or age 17 (otherwise you can't).

[_tank]

There isn't much reason not to send 5 cossack first because you can still focus on your eco (vills + market)

[Hazza54321]

5 coss or 700w are the best shipments to start off with you can go wrong with them

[KINGofOsmane]

5 coss or 700w are the best shipments to start off with you can go wrong with them

finally the russ god comments <'3

[spadel]

people tend to send 700w and still age up with 400w. ill never understand why. imo either send 5coss/13 strel or age up with 500f. I prefer the latter.

[yemshi]

wood is never a bad thing to have. TP's, houses, market ups, BH's, Strelets, Stable...

[spadel]

yeah but you don't need 1100 wood + trickle at 6 minutes.

[Hazza54321]

5 coss or 700w are the best shipments to start off with you can go wrong with them

finally the russ god comments <'3

:) <'3

[momuuu]

yeah but you don''t need 1100 wood + trickle at 6 minutes.

2 military buildings, 5 houses, market upgrades, possible TP?

That''s, excluding TP, ~1500 wood.

[fei123456]

5 cos if you chop for a blockhouse during transition. 5 cos 700w or 5+4 cos 700w.
you can send 700w first if you build your blockhouse with upgrade 400w. steel trap and blockhouse takes 375w in total, then 700w for stable and pops. also you can upgrade your trade route with 700w first.

[spadel]

yeah but you dont need 1100 wood + trickle at 6 minutes.

2 military buildings, 5 houses, market upgrades, possible TP?

Thats, excluding TP, ~1500 wood.

so what you are trying to say is that you need 2 blockhouses, 80 population, the 2nd goldmine and a tp at 6 minutes?

if you play Russia like that ofc they suck

edit: you build 1st bh in age 1, same for 1st hunt up, so you need a stable, 2nd hunt and 1st gold uprade and like 3 houses. any additional houses you can build with trickle + like 2 vils on wood. thats exactly 700w. any extra wood is just stacking up buildings you dont need at the moment, so the 700w shipment combined with 400w from age up is in fact a 300w shipment.

[Garja]

you need exactly 125w for steel traps, 200w for TP and 200w for houses. Then 200w for a stable and 300w for other houses. Realistically you also need a 2nd war hut and a 2nd TP

[momuuu]

2 military buildings, 5 houses, market upgrades, possible TP?

Thats, excluding TP, ~1500 wood.

so what you are trying to say is that you need 2 blockhouses, 80 population, the 2nd goldmine and a tp at 6 minutes?

if you play Russia like that ofc they suck

edit: you build 1st bh in age 1, same for 1st hunt up, so you need a stable, 2nd hunt and 1st gold uprade and like 3 houses. any additional houses you can build with trickle + like 2 vils on wood. thats exactly 700w. any extra wood is just stacking up buildings you dont need at the moment, so the 700w shipment combined with 400w from age up is in fact a 300w shipment.

The 700w is a midterm investment. Youre going to possibly get a blockhouse, market and first food up maybe, so youre still going to need 1100 wood. Which makes it all work out quite nicely.

That just if youre aiming for a midgame timing somewhere, otherwise 5 coss first is probably better.

[spadel]

come on that's bullshit, sorry I cant say it in any other way lol. you don't need tps with Russia to win games, with constant vil and army production you can timing push at 8 minutes with like 15 cav and 40 inf. Russia is a rush civ, by trying to play every civ the same like it appears to be lately (like tp, boom with 20% food, semi ff) ofc Russia ends up as the worst civ. they certainly aren't.

[Garja]

Actually TP helps a lot and in case you need lot of eco it's your only land boom option. Also the reason why it is particularly good is that you spare the 200w anyway if you chop for the blockhouse.
If you age with 500f tho you don't have wood for houses or steel trap. In any case you need 700w for more houses, stable, etc. Also having any vill on wood is kinda bad.

[momuuu]

You're going to need 700w eventually. So if you do not plan to put on timing right away, it might be better to send 700w as quickly as possible so you can get a possible TP and market upgrades as quickly as possible.

[Jaeger]

yeah but you dont need 1100 wood + trickle at 6 minutes.

2 military buildings, 5 houses, market upgrades, possible TP?

Thats, excluding TP, ~1500 wood.

Itll be a while before you need 75 pop

I like the idea of sending eco theory instead of trickle, then you dont have too much wood

[PoniPoika]

2 military buildings, 5 houses, market upgrades, possible TP?

Thats, excluding TP, ~1500 wood.

Itll be a while before you need 75 pop

I like the idea of sending eco theory instead of trickle, then you dont have too much wood

The way to get around all this for an agro early timing is 300w. That with 400w up gives you the option of skipping 700w or going 700w with an extra unit shipment or boyars for the timing.

[SoldieR]

People age with 400w and send 700w so that they can set all vils to food and gold in transition to spam musks, then make market and ups after aging

[anonymous123]

Isn't the answer to this question situational? If you want to do some aggressive strat like 5 musk / 5 cossack then 5 cossack is better, if you want to mass and do some timing push maybe 700 wood is better.