Healers: Why are they never used?

No Flag abbadan
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by abbadan »

I'm curious why no one ever seems to use any kind of healer: priests, medics, healing tents, whatever? Wouldn't it make sense to have them for special or costly units (like mercs, fortwags and curos...)?
If you're GOOD and don't use them, please explain why not or if you have used them, please say what situatioon you do?
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by gibson »

It would make sense and be coat efficient for them to heal a high cost unit but other then that they are worthless. However, practically no one ever things to use them because they are generally considered worthless because they generally are worthless. You have to idle military for it to heal which is a huge draw back....
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No Flag imperial
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by imperial »

because of reasons
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by lukasl99 »

Units rarely stand still and do nothing, so healers wont pay off. The only time where healers are useful is in NR40/DM with Spanish and their unction (probably other treaty modes aswell).
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No Flag periloushare
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by periloushare »

Aztecs build healers, but don't use them as such. Warrior Priests can heal, but can also heal all units while dancing at the firepit. Indian Monks heal too, but it's more of a bonus thing in addition to all the other things they do.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by Mimsy for President »

I use an Imam to heal my mams if I really have to.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by Metis »

In treaty, healers are good for healing cannon as they usually are idle enough to benefit. Healers are also good to station near your daimyos and shoguns, even though the monks too can heal. Besides, I just like army medics, having been one myself.

I really don't know why supremacy players don't make at least one healer. As close as many of your battles are I'd say a healer would be a good addition.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Because they're expansive.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by wuziqii »

http://www.twitch.tv/aiz11/c/6293171 u can see Azimk used it,and made at least 20 priest
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by DerMaxinator »

diarouga wrote:Because they''re expansive.
+1
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by britishmusketeer »

Also if you have expensive units your opponent will probably focus fire them.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by momuuu »

The actual reason is because they don't feel during movement/combat. Given that aspect of them, they're kinda expensive, especially since you need a church for them aswell. Just note how infrequently indian explorers get to heal units.

I'd consider making some healers if they healed during combat, that could actually be very strong. Maybe their healing speed is still too low for it though.
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No Flag Jaeger
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by Jaeger »

Tbh I think everyone just jumps on the bandwagon that healers are bad just because everyone jumps on it too. I doubt anyone did enough testing to say without a doubt that healers are never good. It's just one of those things that is really hard to test, because it's very difficult to quantify the advantage of healing your units, or the advantage vs disadvantage of keeping your units still for a little etc (having 10 units at half health is WAY better than having 5 units at full health). We can make theories, but I doubt that most even has an idea of what the healing rate is. So I agree that at face value making healers doesn't seem so great, but I think that there isn't a definitive answer simply because afaik nobody has done extensive testing, and the intricate mechanics and stuff you can do with healers can't just be negated with a one liner.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by Marco1698 »

Useless for their cost
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by mongobillione »

lukasl99 wrote:Units rarely stand still and do nothing, so healers wont pay off. The only time where healers are useful is in NR40/DM with Spanish and their unction (probably other treaty modes aswell).
3v3 rush on deccan unction fi is gg 1v3
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by momuuu »

ovi12 wrote:Tbh I think everyone just jumps on the bandwagon that healers are bad just because everyone jumps on it too. I doubt anyone did enough testing to say without a doubt that healers are never good. It''s just one of those things that is really hard to test, because it''s very difficult to quantify the advantage of healing your units, or the advantage vs disadvantage of keeping your units still for a little etc (having 10 units at half health is WAY better than having 5 units at full health). We can make theories, but I doubt that most even has an idea of what the healing rate is. So I agree that at face value making healers doesn''t seem so great, but I think that there isn''t a definitive answer simply because afaik nobody has done extensive testing, and the intricate mechanics and stuff you can do with healers can''t just be negated with a one liner.
I did mention how infrequently the indian explorers get to heal in an average game though. The heal rate is not significant in their current form, it''s really that the army has to stand still and not do anything for it to matter. Which is simply something that doesnt happen often enough, and it barely happens that you get to heal more than 5 units with it (in terms of hp). Its a pretty big investment to do something that isn''t that impactful.

If they could heal during a battle, it''d be worth testing it some though. Kinda like the sc medics or sc2 medivacs, which are very strong units in those games.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by yurashic »

Because you have to waste 100 wood on a church and waste 200 gold on a completely useless unit.

In supremacy 1 big fight usually decides the game. If you lose it there is nothing left to heal. If you win it you go and harass enemy eco till he dies and there is no place for healers. If you want to use healers go play MMORPG.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by evilcheadar »

yurashic wrote:Because you have to waste 100 wood on a church and waste 200 gold on a completely useless unit.

In supremacy 1 big fight usually decides the game. If you lose it there is nothing left to heal. If you win it you go and harass enemy eco till he dies and there is no place for healers. If you want to use healers go play MMORPG.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by yurashic »

evilcheadar wrote:
yurashic wrote:Because you have to waste 100 wood on a church and waste 200 gold on a completely useless unit.

In supremacy 1 big fight usually decides the game. If you lose it there is nothing left to heal. If you win it you go and harass enemy eco till he dies and there is no place for healers. If you want to use healers go play MMORPG.
This couldnt be anymore wrong.



Yeah I wrote that just for fun.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by evilcheadar »

yurashic wrote:
evilcheadar wrote:This couldnt be anymore wrong.

Yeah I wrote that just for fun.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by noissance »

Hey what about the france hero card, it lets your explorer get healing ability and an immortal war pet.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by yemshi »

There are better things to send.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by _venox_ »

The hero will not be able to heal like Indian monks, but he will be able to use a healing "circle" ability that takes too fucking long to recharge for it to be of any use. But since you can target anything you could quickly heal up your damaged falconets. There are many other better colonial cards for France though.
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by noissance »

best healers are japanese monks, because they get other abilities too, in late game at least... (sabotage, divine strike bonus, healing tech)
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Healers: Why are they never used?

Post by Einfein »

Healers in TAD are a far cry from what they were in earlier age games. In previous games they could convert enemy units and I believe heal in combat. In TAD they are expensive, slow (for most civs) and usually can't keep up with an army that is on the move. These and other reasons already mentioned basically cover why they are rarely used. I personally believe they do have a place in supremacy, but only in the late game (refer to some players mentioning them in long treaty games etc).

There was an expert player way back in vanilla named Black_Ice_Spain (or something close) and I remember him trying to use healers for awhile and prove they are viable and have a place in supremacy. Ultimately he stopped using them because there were always better things to build. They've been like this since day one in this game and when AoE3 was new people were complaining about them early and often, but ES never did anything with them.

/shrug
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