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Hi, sorry guys for making thread (i know you hate them), but I need some recs where fre beats spain. I thought heavy rush was working, it definitively can be replaced by semi musk ff. Have you got any recs where to show how to semi-ff musk vs spain ? I usually make 1 barracks 2 houses with 400w politician. I ship 4v 700g 700w (tp early game or transition). It's correct ? I make 10 musk (5 first batch 5 second batch), then i age up. I kill some vills or slow my opponent killing houses. On fp spain is not as bad as it was before, so it's a tough Mu for me, who don't know how to semi musk correctly. please share something

marco1698 wrote:Hi, sorry guys for making thread (i know you hate them), but I need some recs where fre beats spain. I thought heavy rush was working, it definitively can be replaced by semi musk ff. Have you got any recs where to show how to semi-ff musk vs spain ? I usually make 1 barracks 2 houses with 400w politician. I ship 4v 700g 700w (tp early game or transition). It''s correct ? I make 10 musk (5 first batch 5 second batch), then i age up. I kill some vills or slow my opponent killing houses. On fp spain is not as bad as it was before, so it''s a tough Mu for me, who don''t know how to semi musk correctly. please share something ?

15 musk semi and ship cannons first in fortress. One of the easier MUs in the game.

Spain's FF is basically French FF with much worse eco, only bonus being an additional (mediocre) shipment. Just musk semi so your shipments don't die to melee inf and there's pretty much no way to lose.

britishmusketeer wrote:

marco1698 wrote:Hi, sorry guys for making thread (i know you hate them), but I need some recs where fre beats spain. I thought heavy rush was working, it definitively can be replaced by semi musk ff. Have you got any recs where to show how to semi-ff musk vs spain ? I usually make 1 barracks 2 houses with 400w politician. I ship 4v 700g 700w (tp early game or transition). Its correct ? I make 10 musk (5 first batch 5 second batch), then i age up. I kill some vills or slow my opponent killing houses. On fp spain is not as bad as it was before, so its a tough Mu for me, who dont know how to semi musk correctly. please share something

15 musk semi and ship cannons first in fortress. One of the easier MUs in the game.

This. But even 10 musk semi is fine.

I used to musks semi too but I can't see the use of it now, unless it's on a map where the tp can't be defended, then you can burn spain's tp. Otherwise, musks are not really useful, and they are a burden in fortress. I often rather 3 huss semi (have only 25w after transition, instead of 125, and 400 + 25w => stable + house + steel traps). Then in fortress go full goons + 2 falcs. The reason why I do this is spain having no goon/skirm shipments, so they can't mass skirms fast enough to counter a goon mass, and falcs can kill the few skirms he has. It's also easy to win the falcs war with goons helping. Once he managed to kill your falcs you just mix skirms to your goons

kaiserklein wrote:I used to musks semi too but I can''t see the use of it now, unless it''s on a map where the tp can''t be defended, then you can burn spain''s tp. Otherwise, musks are not really useful, and they are a burden in fortress. I often rather 3 huss semi (have only 25w after transition, instead of 125, and 400 + 25w =>' stable + house + steel traps). Then in fortress go full goons + 2 falcs. The reason why I do this is spain having no goon/skirm shipments, so they can''t mass skirms fast enough to counter a goon mass, and falcs can kill the few skirms he has. It''s also easy to win the falcs war with goons helping. Once he managed to kill your falcs you just mix skirms to your goons

It''s definately possible to have enough skirms for goon mass, but I guess either most people piro and cant make constant 5 skirms or they dont make any musk. And you shoudln''t really be able to kill falcs with goons

kaiserklein wrote:I used to musks semi too but I can''t see the use of it now, unless it''s on a map where the tp can''t be defended, then you can burn spain''s tp. Otherwise, musks are not really useful, and they are a burden in fortress. I often rather 3 huss semi (have only 25w after transition, instead of 125, and 400 + 25w =>' stable + house + steel traps). Then in fortress go full goons + 2 falcs. The reason why I do this is spain having no goon/skirm shipments, so they can''t mass skirms fast enough to counter a goon mass, and falcs can kill the few skirms he has. It''s also easy to win the falcs war with goons helping. Once he managed to kill your falcs you just mix skirms to your goons

Musks allow you to siege during transition and are an excellent meatshield in early Fortress. Huss are a gamble (there is not guarantee you will catch vils, and he is going to have pikes out soon), whereas musks are a sure thing (on a fair map, you will get a tp and/or a house for your troubles). And a lost house/tp is a lot more crippling anyways, because it stalls Spain''s fortress agenda. Having a shipment blocked or having all shipments delayed is far more devastating than a dead vil.

ovi12 wrote:

kaiserklein wrote:I used to musks semi too but I cant see the use of it now, unless its on a map where the tp cant be defended, then you can burn spains tp. Otherwise, musks are not really useful, and they are a burden in fortress. I often rather 3 huss semi (have only 25w after transition, instead of 125, and 400 + 25w =>' stable + house + steel traps). Then in fortress go full goons + 2 falcs. The reason why I do this is spain having no goon/skirm shipments, so they cant mass skirms fast enough to counter a goon mass, and falcs can kill the few skirms he has. Its also easy to win the falcs war with goons helping. Once he managed to kill your falcs you just mix skirms to your goons

Its definately possible to have enough skirms for goon mass, but I guess either most people piro and cant make constant 5 skirms or they dont make any musk. And you shoudlnt really be able to kill falcs with goons

Idk, Ive always been fine with that comp. You get more goons than the spain guy gets skirms and with a good micro you trade your falcs very well. You will most often be able to snipe a falc with goons by splitting them

papist wrote:

kaiserklein wrote:I used to musks semi too but I cant see the use of it now, unless its on a map where the tp cant be defended, then you can burn spains tp. Otherwise, musks are not really useful, and they are a burden in fortress. I often rather 3 huss semi (have only 25w after transition, instead of 125, and 400 + 25w =>' stable + house + steel traps). Then in fortress go full goons + 2 falcs. The reason why I do this is spain having no goon/skirm shipments, so they cant mass skirms fast enough to counter a goon mass, and falcs can kill the few skirms he has. Its also easy to win the falcs war with goons helping. Once he managed to kill your falcs you just mix skirms to your goons

Musks allow you to siege during transition and are an excellent meatshield in early Fortress. Huss are a gamble (there is not guarantee you will catch vils, and he is going to have pikes out soon), whereas musks are a sure thing (on a fair map, you will get a tp and/or a house for your troubles). And a lost house/tp is a lot more crippling anyways, because it stalls Spains fortress agenda. Having a shipment blocked or having all shipments delayed is far more devastating than a dead vil.

Siege what ? Except a far TP you cant siege nothing. You can die so easily to rods + mm, or dogs or 4 huss age up or whatever, + tc and tower fire... With 15 musks in someones base you can only harass vils. You will never get a house if the spain guy is playing decently. You might force mm out, which is not bad, but imo not enough to motivate a musk semi.
They are such a bad meatshield in fortress, because they dont tank anything at range, and spain will have skirms and falcs. They dont even do really good vs lancers. If you want them to be decent you need to pay the upgrade, which is quite awkward because spains early fortress timing is strong and you cant always afford 200w 200g.
Also spain will send 700w at some point so wont be housed. And the TP will have payed off enough to let him have several shipments in early fortress, which is what you fear, because anyway your late fortress is much better.

kaiserklein wrote:

papist wrote:Musks allow you to siege during transition and are an excellent meatshield in early Fortress. Huss are a gamble (there is not guarantee you will catch vils, and he is going to have pikes out soon), whereas musks are a sure thing (on a fair map, you will get a tp and/or a house for your troubles). And a lost house/tp is a lot more crippling anyways, because it stalls Spains fortress agenda. Having a shipment blocked or having all shipments delayed is far more devastating than a dead vil.

Siege what ? Except a far TP you cant siege nothing. You can die so easily to rods + mm, or dogs or 4 huss age up or whatever, + tc and tower fire... With 15 musks in someones base you can only harass vils. You will never get a house if the spain guy is playing decently. You might force mm out, which is not bad, but imo not enough to motivate a musk semi.
They are such a bad meatshield in fortress, because they dont tank anything at range, and spain will have skirms and falcs. They dont even do really good vs lancers. If you want them to be decent you need to pay the upgrade, which is quite awkward because spains early fortress timing is strong and you cant always afford 200w 200g.
Also spain will send 700w at some point so wont be housed. And the TP will have payed off enough to let him have several shipments in early fortress, which is what you fear, because anyway your late fortress is much better.

Well the thing is that you HAVE to ship falcs first vs spain orelse you get your stable and a few houses sieged down until you get falcs as second shipment. And if you dont musk semi, you just dont have any cover for your falcs. You cant ship 5 goons and mmake 5, spain will have 10 musk from transition + 5 skirms and either 8 or 16 pike and 5 dogs which can tank while ur ranged stuff shoots the goons and the falcs siege ur shit

Do the piroshiki FF and spam pikemen/petards. go for his houses , TC, market, and tradeposts. Sending team archaic infantry helps, as it makes pikes train 50% faster.

There was a nilla rec, hallly vs Garja, where Garja wins with semi ff musk vs hallly Spain. I would check some tad recs, have you got any good recs?

hazza54321 wrote:

britishmusketeer wrote:15 musk semi and ship cannons first in fortress. One of the easier MUs in the game.

This. But even 10 musk semi is fine.

10 musk is fine but you dont always have a shipment ready in fortress if you send 700w so I make 5 more while aging to fortress. Musks are also useful in general vs spains melee heavy composition so making 15 musks doesnt hurt.

Before to make this thread I already known how to play to this MU. I made this thread with the purpose of download some recs...

I want recs of spain beating france...

ovi12 wrote:

kaiserklein wrote:Siege what ? Except a far TP you cant siege nothing. You can die so easily to rods + mm, or dogs or 4 huss age up or whatever, + tc and tower fire... With 15 musks in someones base you can only harass vils. You will never get a house if the spain guy is playing decently. You might force mm out, which is not bad, but imo not enough to motivate a musk semi.
They are such a bad meatshield in fortress, because they dont tank anything at range, and spain will have skirms and falcs. They dont even do really good vs lancers. If you want them to be decent you need to pay the upgrade, which is quite awkward because spains early fortress timing is strong and you cant always afford 200w 200g.
Also spain will send 700w at some point so wont be housed. And the TP will have payed off enough to let him have several shipments in early fortress, which is what you fear, because anyway your late fortress is much better.

Well the thing is that you HAVE to ship falcs first vs spain orelse you get your stable and a few houses sieged down until you get falcs as second shipment. And if you dont musk semi, you just dont have any cover for your falcs. You cant ship 5 goons and mmake 5, spain will have 10 musk from transition + 5 skirms and either 8 or 16 pike and 5 dogs which can tank while ur ranged stuff shoots the goons and the falcs siege ur shit

I always ship 5 goons then 2 falcs, and I never get pushed too fast by the spain guy. Dont forget that with a 3 huss semi you age up around 7 min - 7 min 15 max, kinda same as spain ff. So you basically have 10 goons while spain has at most 5 skirms, since goons and skirms have the same training time... What is he going to do vs 10 goons with 5 skirms, 10 musks and stuff like pikes dogs rods ? He cant even push you. And who said he ships falcs first ? If he does, yeah he will siege my base but then I have 10 goons when he gets the 2 falcs and almost 15 when he pushes my base, I dont think he will be able to cover his falcs... If he waits for falcs 2nd shipment, so that he can cover them properly, then I will also have my falcs when he pushes.

We just try that next time ovi

marco1698 wrote:There was a nilla rec, hallly vs Garja, where Garja wins with semi ff musk vs hallly Spain. I would check some tad recs, have you got any good recs?

Lol but hallly was a joke, you can''t use him as an example

Really you can do everything vs spain...
The easiest way is huss semi into goon mass (5goons/2falcs), kill the falcs and then gg. You'll have to always watch your army but if you're not sure about your falc micro that's the best way.

Best way if you play perfectly imo is semi 20-25 musk. Tp while aging 700w/4vills/700g. Go dble musk to kill his TP and his tower (his falcs will take like 30-40 more secs to come) and then just do some std stuffs.
This MU is fre favoured but spain can still win I think.

kaiserklein wrote:

ovi12 wrote:Well the thing is that you HAVE to ship falcs first vs spain orelse you get your stable and a few houses sieged down until you get falcs as second shipment. And if you dont musk semi, you just dont have any cover for your falcs. You cant ship 5 goons and mmake 5, spain will have 10 musk from transition + 5 skirms and either 8 or 16 pike and 5 dogs which can tank while ur ranged stuff shoots the goons and the falcs siege ur shit

I always ship 5 goons then 2 falcs, and I never get pushed too fast by the spain guy. Dont forget that with a 3 huss semi you age up around 7 min - 7 min 15 max, kinda same as spain ff. So you basically have 10 goons while spain has at most 5 skirms, since goons and skirms have the same training time... What is he going to do vs 10 goons with 5 skirms, 10 musks and stuff like pikes dogs rods ? He cant even push you. And who said he ships falcs first ? If he does, yeah he will siege my base but then I have 10 goons when he gets the 2 falcs and almost 15 when he pushes my base, I dont think he will be able to cover his falcs... If he waits for falcs 2nd shipment, so that he can cover them properly, then I will also have my falcs when he pushes.

We just try that next time ovi

But his second shipment comes from in much faster than yours. Why would you risk taking some damage when you can take zero damage?

ovi12 wrote:

kaiserklein wrote:I always ship 5 goons then 2 falcs, and I never get pushed too fast by the spain guy. Dont forget that with a 3 huss semi you age up around 7 min - 7 min 15 max, kinda same as spain ff. So you basically have 10 goons while spain has at most 5 skirms, since goons and skirms have the same training time... What is he going to do vs 10 goons with 5 skirms, 10 musks and stuff like pikes dogs rods ? He cant even push you. And who said he ships falcs first ? If he does, yeah he will siege my base but then I have 10 goons when he gets the 2 falcs and almost 15 when he pushes my base, I dont think he will be able to cover his falcs... If he waits for falcs 2nd shipment, so that he can cover them properly, then I will also have my falcs when he pushes.

We just try that next time ovi

But his second shipment comes from in much faster than yours. Why would you risk taking some damage when you can take zero damage?

Nah your second shipment comes almost right after your first, unless you sent 700w after 700g ofc. Otherwise, how would you be able to ship 700w and almost have a shipment ready in fortress ? Plus hes the one pushing you, so he has to cross the map (even if he made a forward tower, he has to walk for a little bit), so you will be perfectly fine with your 2 falcs.

Btw, if there is a forward tower, musks semi might be better so that you can siege it. Tho Im not sure, because then you can raid him better when making a cav semi, and you can still easily wall the tower up. But I dont think spain should have a forward tower vs France anyway

kaiserklein wrote:

ovi12 wrote:But his second shipment comes from in much faster than yours. Why would you risk taking some damage when you can take zero damage?

Nah your second shipment comes almost right after your first, unless you sent 700w after 700g ofc. Otherwise, how would you be able to ship 700w and almost have a shipment ready in fortress ? Plus hes the one pushing you, so he has to cross the map (even if he made a forward tower, he has to walk for a little bit), so you will be perfectly fine with your 2 falcs.

Btw, if there is a forward tower, musks semi might be better so that you can siege it. Tho Im not sure, because then you can raid him better when making a cav semi, and you can still easily wall the tower up. But I dont think spain should have a forward tower vs France anyway

Why not forward tower? 10 wont kill a tower. And you theoretically have to scout and is hes going age2 you dont put it forward.

upgrade your vills with market(hp attack). build 2nd tp with your 400w. semi 4v 700g 700w 2cannon and mass goons.

I'd skip 1 shipment for canons.

kaiserklein wrote:

ovi12 wrote:But his second shipment comes from in much faster than yours. Why would you risk taking some damage when you can take zero damage?

Nah your second shipment comes almost right after your first, unless you sent 700w after 700g ofc. Otherwise, how would you be able to ship 700w and almost have a shipment ready in fortress ? Plus hes the one pushing you, so he has to cross the map (even if he made a forward tower, he has to walk for a little bit), so you will be perfectly fine with your 2 falcs.

Btw, if there is a forward tower, musks semi might be better so that you can siege it. Tho Im not sure, because then you can raid him better when making a cav semi, and you can still easily wall the tower up. But I dont think spain should have a forward tower vs France anyway

Skipping 700w sucks lol, if you do your eco is probably worse than spains. You can make 15 musk and get a lot more xp than from 3 huss.

It doesnt really matter, most spain players including me would lose to most stuff, you would need someone with a lot more experience like umeu to be able to punish suboptimal and corner cutting strats.

ovi12 wrote:

kaiserklein wrote:Nah your second shipment comes almost right after your first, unless you sent 700w after 700g ofc. Otherwise, how would you be able to ship 700w and almost have a shipment ready in fortress ? Plus hes the one pushing you, so he has to cross the map (even if he made a forward tower, he has to walk for a little bit), so you will be perfectly fine with your 2 falcs.

Btw, if there is a forward tower, musks semi might be better so that you can siege it. Tho Im not sure, because then you can raid him better when making a cav semi, and you can still easily wall the tower up. But I dont think spain should have a forward tower vs France anyway

Why not forward tower? 10 wont kill a tower. And you theoretically have to scout and is hes going age2 you dont put it forward.

Because 10 musks (or even 15) are enough to kill your tower, because it can be walled up so easily since french has 2 scouts, because being super aggressive vs french wont work since france semi ff is so fast and they have cdbs that will rek pikes and even falcs