Are Mahout Lancers and Howdahs good units?

Good
42
60%
Bad
28
40%
 
Total votes: 70

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India _DB_
Howdah
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04 Dec 2015, 06:06

I still think how can they be bad, if they are beasts, especially the mahouts.

I've saw H2O saying why they suck, and why they don't and why are camels very efficient.

Still I see many reasons to use them, like in in age 4, where both elephants are quite OP, and they are almost as good as mames lol.

I've saw KingOwnage making sepoy mahout/howdahs, which works very well and wins him many games.

Also I saw boneng rekting age 4 japan flamming arrow and ashi nagi push with seaboom semi fi and mahout/urumis/monitors lol

1)What you think that are they really a good units to make?
2)When should you use them? Should you only ship them or also make them?
3)Should you reserve a card slot for elephant combat?
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United States of America _H2O
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04 Dec 2015, 06:18

I voted bad. For your main composition you really want camels. Elephants are more of a surprise (35 pop coming out of one cav batch from one stable potentially), also are useable in niche positions. Mahouts for tanking mostly. Not sure when I would make a howdah tbh.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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04 Dec 2015, 06:23

1) Howdah is a bad unit, just make sepoys or zamburaks instead.
Mahouts are decent, not really good since it is a slow unit but sowar also suck so you can make mahouts but that s like urumis, vs a good player it won't be good unless you get a very good position.

2) Never ship howdahs, you have some op anti cav shipment as india like 9 zams or 9 sepoys, I would go 14-15 zams instead of 2 howdahs 100% of the time.
You can ship 2 mahouts, I like to do it, that's not bad imo, better than 8 sowars.
However, they are too expansive and I would train them only if I really need cav.
Usually as india you go gurkha/zam and try to have more skirm than your opponent.

3) No.
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No Flag howlingwolfpaw
Howdah
Posts: 1874

04 Dec 2015, 07:49

In TR or as more things go late game elephants are better. I dont even upgrade camels. They actually train faster than camels once you have the tech from the temple and card. If camels trained faster like euro civs they would be viable as indias spam unit but they are just aweful. I think the biggest problem with Mahouts is that they are clumsy and have really bad pathing. When groups of skirms they will kill them faster than cannon will so think of them as melee cannon. If they moved more like hussars they would be a lot better. a howda gurka mix is a beautiful thing. I didn't vote because they are not bad, but not great either. I personally would like to see each of them nerfed a little for lower pop slots. like 3 for howda and 4 for mahouts.
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India _DB_
Howdah
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04 Dec 2015, 13:25

Yeah I see why 2 howdahs is a bad shipment (also because they cost 250 food), and ofc 9 zambs 8 zambs powerful.

2 mahouts shouldn't be better than 8 sowars (I don't know if you meant the 6 sowars card), because 2 mahouts cost 350 food, and 6 sowers are free. Mahouts are op when you send 3 mahouts and 2 mahouts and bash enemy army at once with urumi timing.

I totally agree with H2O and diarouga about their positioning. Suppose a japan/russia player is sieging your agra and you instantly pop out 3 mahouts into his army of yumi/strelets, they just rekt everything and it ends with gg.

Also, I want to point out something about siege eles and frigates.

On some water maps frigate is stronger than 2 siege eles against some civs (because 2 siege cost 500 food), even at killing cannons because you are getting 1200 resources for free with more range lol. It's really strong on maps like new england/sageunay where french player is going a timing at your agra with 2 cannons and you kill out them with the frigate for costing no resources.

The only thing that bothers me about sowars is that their HP and the fact that they suck without one of the camel cards...
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Germany lordraphael
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04 Dec 2015, 14:20

i think its not a big mistake to make mahouts mostly because india just has no really good other hand cav . The sowar is kinda mediocre as a hand cav so there is no harm in making mahouts instead tho i wouldnt do it personally.

Howdahs are bad the only time when u wanna make them is if u expect someone to revolt and it happens that u are in age 3. Howdahs annihilate a revo because of their hp and insane range , also those imp huss wont do anything vs howdahs
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No Flag thestrider
Crossbow
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04 Dec 2015, 17:56

Also remember that they can be crackshotted by a European IV explorer.
Imo all brit has to do is in age 2 with lbow musk huss as diarrhea [diarouga] suggested. -_DB_
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India _DB_
Howdah
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05 Dec 2015, 05:31

thestrider wrote:Also remember that they can be crackshotted by a European IV explorer.


Good point. But I don't think that honored mahouts can be shot. They have too much HP (around 1700 with 30% RR), probably more than the crackshot attack I guess. But the shot might leave them to low HP.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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05 Dec 2015, 07:30

_DB_ wrote:Yeah I see why 2 howdahs is a bad shipment (also because they cost 250 food), and ofc 9 zambs 8 zambs powerful.

2 mahouts shouldn't be better than 8 sowars (I don't know if you meant the 6 sowars card), because 2 mahouts cost 350 food, and 6 sowers are free. Mahouts are op when you send 3 mahouts and 2 mahouts and bash enemy army at once with urumi timing.

I totally agree with H2O and diarouga about their positioning. Suppose a japan/russia player is sieging your agra and you instantly pop out 3 mahouts into his army of yumi/strelets, they just rekt everything and it ends with gg.

Also, I want to point out something about siege eles and frigates.

On some water maps frigate is stronger than 2 siege eles against some civs (because 2 siege cost 500 food), even at killing cannons because you are getting 1200 resources for free with more range lol. It's really strong on maps like new england/sageunay where french player is going a timing at your agra with 2 cannons and you kill out them with the frigate for costing no resources.

The only thing that bothers me about sowars is that their HP and the fact that they suck without one of the camel cards...

8sowars because 6sowars+ 2 instead of the 350f.
Btw, just don't send 3 mahouts, 2mahouts are ok but 1000f is a huge investment.
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India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1722

05 Dec 2015, 07:36

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
_DB_ wrote:Yeah I see why 2 howdahs is a bad shipment (also because they cost 250 food), and ofc 9 zambs 8 zambs powerful.

2 mahouts shouldn't be better than 8 sowars (I don't know if you meant the 6 sowars card), because 2 mahouts cost 350 food, and 6 sowers are free. Mahouts are op when you send 3 mahouts and 2 mahouts and bash enemy army at once with urumi timing.

I totally agree with H2O and diarouga about their positioning. Suppose a japan/russia player is sieging your agra and you instantly pop out 3 mahouts into his army of yumi/strelets, they just rekt everything and it ends with gg.

Also, I want to point out something about siege eles and frigates.

On some water maps frigate is stronger than 2 siege eles against some civs (because 2 siege cost 500 food), even at killing cannons because you are getting 1200 resources for free with more range lol. It's really strong on maps like new england/sageunay where french player is going a timing at your agra with 2 cannons and you kill out them with the frigate for costing no resources.

The only thing that bothers me about sowars is that their HP and the fact that they suck without one of the camel cards...

8sowars because 6sowars+ 2 instead of the 350f.
Btw, just don't send 3 mahouts, 2mahouts are ok but 1000f is a huge investment.


Yeah. I always thought I can send 2 mahout and make one myself. I don't think it's required. xD
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France [Armag] diarouga
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05 Dec 2015, 07:39

Don't train mahouts, too slow to train but 2 mahouts are enough, if he doesn't have enough anti cav, that's goona punish him and if he has many goons, 3 mahouts aren't going to make a difference.
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China fei123456
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05 Dec 2015, 19:26

mahout are OOOOPPPP units. but you dont need to train them. just send 1+2+3 can tank tons of damage(like dog soldier, mameluke). their attack is low but it doesnt matter at all.
howdah is not cost-effective.
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China fei123456
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05 Dec 2015, 19:29

mahout+sepoy+gurkha is unbeatable. you can rush vs sepoy and age up and send mahout. or semiff for a timing with vet sepoy+mahout. they're like mameluke to some extent.
350f/1000f is not expensive at all, as food gather much faster than gold.
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Switzerland glorious_
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05 Dec 2015, 19:34

mahouts cots just to much for what u get.... civ 6 and really expensive + if u make mahouts all enemys aim on them so they are dead in secs...
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China fei123456
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05 Dec 2015, 19:41

glorious_ wrote:mahouts cots just to much for what u get.... civ 6 and really expensive + if u make mahouts all enemys aim on them so they are dead in secs...

can a 1000+hp cav die in secs? mameluke only has 1450 too.
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United States of America _H2O
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05 Dec 2015, 23:58

Different range resists and a mame is cheaper by far than mahout.

Btw diarouga pulling up with exactly my thoughts. He's got it right on elephants
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India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1722

06 Dec 2015, 04:55

I don't know why KingOwnage_2nd loves to use Mahouts even if they suck.

I asked him on stream, he said Mahouts are better. According to him they don't suck because where ever you aim the mahouts, they rekt infantry ball which consists of Ranged Infantry + Heavy Inf cuz of area damage.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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06 Dec 2015, 07:04

_DB_ wrote:I don't know why KingOwnage_2nd loves to use Mahouts even if they suck.

I asked him on stream, he said Mahouts are better. According to him they don't suck because where ever you aim the mahouts, they rekt infantry ball which consists of Ranged Infantry + Heavy Inf cuz of area damage.

He's a treaty player and in treaty you don't hit and run hard.
But think about it, what's better between 2 mahouts and 9 uhlans? Or between a mahout and a mam? And mahouts are even more expansive.
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Canada _NiceKING_
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06 Dec 2015, 07:53

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
_DB_ wrote:I don't know why KingOwnage_2nd loves to use Mahouts even if they suck.

I asked him on stream, he said Mahouts are better. According to him they don't suck because where ever you aim the mahouts, they rekt infantry ball which consists of Ranged Infantry + Heavy Inf cuz of area damage.

He's a treaty player and in treaty you don't hit and run hard.
But think about it, what's better between 2 mahouts and 9 uhlans? Or between a mahout and a mam? And mahouts are even more expansive.


He plays rush more than treaty
Great Britain WickedCossack
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06 Dec 2015, 09:14

Anyone still doing the Howdah FF vs Spain ?

I don't really see what Spain can do vs 5-6 Howdah out so fast.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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06 Dec 2015, 09:52

WickedCossack wrote:Anyone still doing the Howdah FF vs Spain ?

I don't really see what Spain can do vs 5-6 Howdah out so fast.

That's too slow imo.
Could you share a rec where someone does that?
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India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1722

06 Dec 2015, 11:26

Why would you even go age 3 vs Spain, Spain aggressive FF timing is faster than the 1st quarter of your FF process lol.
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Netherlands momuuu
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06 Dec 2015, 15:01

Some problem with mahouts is that it is so easy to micro vs them. If your opponemt has ramged cav he can disengage from the fight a bit and focus down the mahout, which will be rather efficient because no overkill. Mahouts are better when your opponent has musks instead of ranged cav, or when you can somehow pin them down, so that your mahout doesnt get destroyed before the fight even starts.

I must say I have a weakness for howdahs. I just love them. Coolest units in the game.

Which makes both units you should make.
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France Kaiserklein
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06 Dec 2015, 15:44

I guess if you stayed a bit in colonial and sent camel ups it's another reason not to go for elephants
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China fei123456
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08 Dec 2015, 21:19

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
_DB_ wrote:I don't know why KingOwnage_2nd loves to use Mahouts even if they suck.

I asked him on stream, he said Mahouts are better. According to him they don't suck because where ever you aim the mahouts, they rekt infantry ball which consists of Ranged Infantry + Heavy Inf cuz of area damage.

He's a treaty player and in treaty you don't hit and run hard.
But think about it, what's better between 2 mahouts and 9 uhlans? Or between a mahout and a mam? And mahouts are even more expansive.

but india dont have mameluke or 9 uhlan. they only have 6 sowar. yeah 2 mahout needs 350f but 6 sowar needs 200w200g to upgrade (and even you dont have a stable you can have vet mahout).

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