How good are the Mahout Lancers and Howdahs?

[Gendarme]

India doesn't have goons so why is this comparison relevant anyway?

[duckzilla]

To see whether a faction has a relative advantage. To get a better overall picture of a civ. Ultimatively, to find specific strengths/weaknesses to exploit in the next game.

[evilcheadar]

yes howdahs and mahouts are strong, use them deliberately

I used them to get my team out of tight spot in a basement rush game last weekend

[jgals]

Conclusion: now I also have a bad opinion about Howdahs. It is pretty much what jgals already said: Howdahs are better in static and lategame warfare because of 1) their lower speed but higher range than goons and 2) their comparably high cost in food/gold but relative pop efficiency when you were able to sent cards.

omg... the first time ever somebody agreed with me on ESOC. Even if it is only "pretty much". Ill take it.

[Lukas_L99]

Problem with Elephants in treaty is that they’re getting sniped down very easily. Thats harder to do against dragoons or hussars.

[momuuu]

Problem with Elephants in treaty is that they’re getting sniped down very easily. Thats harder to do against dragoons or hussars.

This is the entire problem in sup and probably even bigger. Instead of 20 goons trying to hit and run a group of hussars, during which most players will attack move and kill maybe 2 hussars, those 20 goons will kill a mahout if the player decides to target (which is really easy). Against elephants the opponent will simply have near perfect drag box micro for almost no effort. Especially for melee cav that is a big deal.

[Hazza54321]

The main thing that sucks about mahouts is the att animation , they just dont seem to hit shit if being kited,

[Garja]

Btw it's the dude on top of the elephant who attacks. This means it attacks at about 45° from where the elephant is looking during the animation.

[momuuu]

Typical cav usage is you charging in with the hand cav trying to get a snare so the rest of your infantry can sort of catch up with the retreating army. Meanwhile, that cavalry is being kited and taking a lot of 'free damage'. The thing with hussars is that they're reasonably effective at doing this because it is hard to actually split the fire properly and thus get a lot of value out of kiting hussars. Mahouts are slower, seem to indeed have a wonky attack animation and get focussed so hard. If the armies are of any reasonable size, they will basically have enough goons to one shot a mahout (which is about 3.5 hussars). Thats just crazy effective. 3 rounds of kiting and you've just lost 1200 food and 750 wood for not much in return.

[Garja]

To be fair the point of cav is not really to snare so other units catch up. That's indeed one of cav perks but you expect way more from such expensive units. In that sense the damage dealt is just as important. Great example of that are ulhans, axe riders or even just sowar.
If the mahout connects with enough infantry that can be already worth it from a pure cost efficiency point. But ye in general elephants (and other premium units as well) are not meant to be cost efficient to begin with. In stead of trading them from value they should be used to seek a decisive battle win. In this sense mahouts are used to unbalance the opponent combo by lowering the skirms count, even at an unfavorable price. Often it is not possible to restore the skirm count so there is nothing to contest the opponent army damaging the eco and winning the game.

[evilcheadar]

you guys are not factoring in area damage and multipliers

[evilcheadar]

it's a true fact -Wikipedia that- now allow me to attack, gendarme the hack:

zamburaks are the goons for india

[fightinfrenchman]

Oftentimes in Basement games my usually OP gendarmes are slaughtered by well-microed Howdahs and it frustrates me greatly.

[jgals]

Problem with Elephants in treaty is that they’re getting sniped down very easily. Thats harder to do against dragoons or hussars.

This is the entire problem in sup and probably even bigger. Instead of 20 goons trying to hit and run a group of hussars, during which most players will attack move and kill maybe 2 hussars, those 20 goons will kill a mahout if the player decides to target (which is really easy). Against elephants the opponent will simply have near perfect drag box micro for almost no effort. Especially for melee cav that is a big deal.

yea more of a problem in sup when you only have 2-3 in TR you aren't able to micro sniping as much because ther is a lot of other stuff to do

[DracoWolfgand]

My personal opinion:

Mahout Lancers: Very good, arguably the "Trump Card" of the Indians. Even several heavy infantry units struggle against then, and dont forget, if their HP is getting low, you always have the option of running away :p. Obviously, their main weakness is light cavalry( Such as Dragoons ), but they can still usually do a lot of damage before getting killed on most scenario.

Howdahs: ... Not as great. Zamburaks are most population-effective on most circunstances. Though Howdahs can take a few niche roles due to their massive HP. It helps if you think of then less as a light cavalry unit and more as sort of "movable" tower, as, while they can use hit-and-run tactics, they dont always "need" to, what makes then better then Zamburaks at defending a area,

[Gendarme]

Btw it's the dude on top of the elephant who attacks. This means it attacks at about 45° from where the elephant is looking during the animation.

My whole life is a lie.