ESOCommunity

[to be clear, I am not the infamous Darwin Giovanny]

Most people send distributivism (wood trickle) as their first card, but I'm wondering about some other cards you guys send as Russia. My personal favorite is to send 300 wood and build a tp straight away. It ensures an early tp which means more age 2 resource shipments and cossacks. I've never done the math, but the early TP (or two if you had a 200 wood start and didn't build a market) seems to pay off more, at least in the short term.

If you start with a tp you usually have 2 shipments in age 2 so I send distibitivism and then the team improved gather card

Distrib and I think a bad arguemwnt can be made for Eco theory as well.

If TP and age 17 you can trickle+eco theory.

If water, tricle schooners

Hazza54321 wrote:If water, tricle schooners

Yeah 17 trickle/schooners

17v with trickle and furrier on cascada, carolina, hisp etc.

Mimsy for President wrote:17v with trickle and furrier on cascada, carolina, hisp etc.

No.

Is saving always bad?

[Armag] diarouga wrote:

Mimsy for President wrote:17v with trickle and furrier on cascada, carolina, hisp etc.

No.

Because you've never tried it.

Mimsy for President wrote:17v with trickle and furrier on cascada, carolina, hisp etc.

Perhaps 14 with spice trade early in colonial might be better, need to test

[Armag] diarouga wrote:

Hazza54321 wrote:If water, tricle schooners

Yeah 17 trickle/schooners

Is that with tp?

Hazza54321 wrote:

Mimsy for President wrote:17v with trickle and furrier on cascada, carolina, hisp etc.

Perhaps 14 with spice trade early in colonial might be better, need to test

Yeah it's definitely better. I know that Blackstar used to send spice trade first in colonial with Russia and Ports.

Before goodspeed developed his TP fetish, he was actually all over spice trade. Had it in just about every deck lol.

Method_man714 wrote:

[Armag] diarouga wrote:

Hazza54321 wrote:If water, tricle schooners

Yeah 17 trickle/schooners

Is that with tp?

With or without.
@MM 14 and spice trade is indeed better.

interesting read, i will try it out

I occasionally go for scout cav first on a wood start where im going to be making cossacks primarily. 10% hp and some extra los when vill hunting means you can put your eco ahead of your opponent more easily. I know its not standard or optimal but a stable open and shipping 5 coss 4 coss you can have 19 cossacks at the 7 minute mark buffed with extra hp and boyars incoming

300w + 700w => 200 walls and then late game Russia

Distributivism is 2.5 vills on wood. Eco theory scales based on the number of vills you have, and, I’ve heard, it overtakes distributivism in value when you have 25 vills. So in theory, distributivism really only makes sense when you need to either push or defend prior to like 8:30 when you start to get around 25 vills. For the most common Russian strat which is a Cossack/strelet/musk rush, this makes sense and is optimal. But if you think you can survive and execute your plan prior to 8-9 minutes without the wood that distributivism provides, I think eco theory is better

My question is, what is the Russia water boom build order? When I’ve tried it, I’ve had a hard time figuring out when to fit in schooners

[Armag] diarouga wrote:

Method_man714 wrote:

Show hidden quotes

[Armag] diarouga wrote:

Hazza54321 wrote:If water, tricle schooners

Yeah 17 trickle/schooners

Is that with tp?

With or without.
@MM 14 and spice trade is indeed better.

Furrier is better in team games though

Exotic Hardwoods for life.

Squamiger wrote:Distributivism is 2.5 vills on wood. Eco theory scales based on the number of vills you have, and, I’ve heard, it overtakes distributivism in value when you have 25 vills. So in theory, distributivism really only makes sense when you need to either push or defend prior to like 8:30 when you start to get around 25 vills. For the most common Russian strat which is a Cossack/strelet/musk rush, this makes sense and is optimal. But if you think you can survive and execute your plan prior to 8-9 minutes without the wood that distributivism provides, I think eco theory is better

You're talking about the time where shipping eco theory would be better than shipping the wood trickle. But in fact you've already shipped it a while ago so it's different.

25v is the point where eco theory will start outgathering the wood trickle. You get 26v around 8 min, and the wood trickle usually comes in around 2:30 or so. So if you choosed to ship eco theory, that's 5 min 30 where you could have the wood trickle, which results in a loss of resources. Then you roughly need another 5 min 30 for eco theory to scale and get the same amount of resources back. So at the end of the day, it's at least 10 min overall for eco theory to outgather the wood trickle. That means at minute 12-13, eco theory starts to be better... And on top of that, the wood trickle doesn't have walking time and is not raidable.

So unless you agree on playing nr 20 with your opponent, I advise you not to do that. And actually in nr 20 they ship both wood trickle and eco theory, so just never do it lol

7 sheeps

Kaiserklein wrote:You're talking about the time where shipping eco theory would be better than shipping the wood trickle. But in fact you've already shipped it a while ago so it's different.

25v is the point where eco theory will start outgathering the wood trickle. You get 26v around 8 min, and the wood trickle usually comes in around 2:30 or so. So if you choosed to ship eco theory, that's 5 min 30 where you could have the wood trickle, which results in a loss of resources. Then you roughly need another 5 min 30 for eco theory to scale and get the same amount of resources back. So at the end of the day, it's at least 10 min overall for eco theory to outgather the wood trickle. That means at minute 12-13, eco theory starts to be better... And on top of that, the wood trickle doesn't have walking time and is not raidable.

So unless you agree on playing nr 20 with your opponent, I advise you not to do that. And actually in nr 20 they ship both wood trickle and eco theory, so just never do it lol

yea that makes sense. a lot of my russia games definitely go longer than 13 minutes though, but I guess the other question is, what shape are you in when you arrive to 13 min? If you start with distributivism you'll probably be in a better position. the unraidable / no walking time factor of distributivism is really nice, it basically means you'll mostly never be housed and out of wood

Go TP and 17v age up. Send both distributivism and eco theory.