Why do people think russian musks are worse ?

[deleted_user0]

Kaiserclown logic:
1. OVERKILLING IS REAL AND HUGE ADVANTAGE HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
2. *Someone tells Kaiserclown that it's not that simple and there are also other side*
3. INVALID ARGUMENT CAUSE OVERKILL EXISTS HUEHUEHUEHUE

Why I even bother to argue with 10 year old Kaiserclowns

[deleted_user0]

Let's take another example so even Kaiserclown may understand.
There's a skirmisher unit with 21 ranged attack. To kill russian musket is needs: 3 hits. To kill normal musket it needs: 4 hits.
Another example why overkilling is a very bad argument. Sometimes low hp gives you advantage, sometimes disadvantage.

[Garja]

Did you even try to put units in the scenario editor? As far as I remember 24 russian muskets (barely) beat 20 normal musks.

[deleted_user0]

Did you even try to put units in the scenario editor? As far as I remember 24 russian muskets (barely) beat 20 normal musks.

This is fucking retarded comparison.

It's cause in this case normal musket overkills russian musket hard and russian musket is not overkilling normal musket.
But in a real situation there's a lot of other units.

[deleted_user0]

Garja. Give Russian muskets +15hp and normal muskets +5hp.
See what happens.

It proves how dumb this kind of comparison is. Do you even use logic?

[zoom]

Also, 20% more attack and hp means they are more than 20% worse. Learn to math. Take an easier example:

Team 1: 1 unit with 2000 hp and 200 attack
Team 2: 2 units with 1000hp and 100 attack
Use your insane sick math skills and calculate which team wins without micro.

Also this overkilling is a fucking retarded argument.
How about for example TC fire with colonial militia? 1 hitting russia muskets and 2 hitting normal muskets? Is low hp-->"no overkilling" advantage also in this situation?

I would suggest that KaiserClown would try to use Russia instead of 24/7 german semi.

Suppose you mean 20% less attack and hp: Absolutely, but not 36% worse or anywhere near it. The only mathematical difference lies in damage drop-off (to use your own example, the half-stats units lose half their total damage output after losing half their total hp). Other than that, pathing and overkill are significant practical factors that are less tangible.

[deleted_user0]

Yes, zoom, you are right here. Don't we have any math professors here to prove this shit?

I'm getting depressed with these "BUT 4 RUSSIAN MUSKETS WIN 3 NORMAL MUSKET" 5/5 arguments.

[Garja]

Did you even try to put units in the scenario editor? As far as I remember 24 russian muskets (barely) beat 20 normal musks.

This is fucking retarded comparison.

It's cause in this case normal musket overkills russian musket hard and russian musket is not overkilling normal musket.
But in a real situation there's a lot of other units.

It is not. This is how you fuckin compare units. We are talking of muskets here so the first thing to consider is musk vs musk.
Then it comes musk vs cav. Now, weaker unit does increase the problem of diminishing returns but at the same more units means you have some to put in meele (which is how you generally micro musks vs cav and not by meeling all 50 units). Also a big ball of musks kiting is less likely to be completely meeled by few cav.
Many musks also are harder to target for skirmishers. With staggered mode they are also more effective vs cannons because 2 falcs can only aim 2 units at time anyway and they already overkill normal musks.

Garja. Give Russian muskets +15hp and normal muskets +5hp.
See what happens.

It proves how dumb this kind of comparison is. Do you even use logic?

They win even harder. Nice logic

[zoom]

Yes, zoom, you are right here. Don't we have any math professors here to prove this shit?

I'm getting depressed with these "BUT 4 RUSSIAN MUSKETS WIN 3 NORMAL MUSKET" 5/5 arguments.

I am not arguing anything like that. I'm just stating facts, lol...

[deleted_user0]

don't they have schools in Cagliari? This guy is a fucking joke. Or a troll.

Only way to compare muskets is musket vs musket fights? Ok nice. So it's all about overkill factor in this one particular sitatuation.

And secondly, they don't win harder hahahahaha.
Russian musket needs 9 shots to kill normal musket. If you add normal musket 5hp, shotcount becomes 10.
Normal musket needs 6 shots to kill russian musket. If you give Russian musket +15hp, shotcount stays same, 6.

The funniest thing is that we have these Garias in balance team who can't handle even simple math and intelligence level is lower than average level of Cagliarias zoo ahahahahaha.

[Dsy]

Normal musket 27% stronger and 31% more expensive than russian. Have a nice day!

[deleted_user0]

where the fuck is Italy and Cagliari 21

[tedere12]

did your cat help you make that pic on paint?

[britishmusketeer]

Normal musket 27% stronger and 31% more expensive than russian. Have a nice day!

lol

[Garja]

where the fuck is Italy and Cagliari 21

Rofl, nice try tho.

[deleted_user0]

did your cat help you make that pic on paint?

yea I just created this table in 2 minutes
#paintwizard

[Garja]

don't they have schools in Cagliari? This guy is a fucking joke. Or a troll.

Only way to compare muskets is musket vs musket fights? Ok nice. So it's all about overkill factor in this one particular sitatuation.

And secondly, they don't win harder hahahahaha.
Russian musket needs 9 shots to kill normal musket. If you add normal musket 5hp, shotcount becomes 10.
Normal musket needs 6 shots to kill russian musket. If you give Russian musket +15hp, shotcount stays same, 6.

The funniest thing is that we have these Garias in balance team who can't handle even simple math and intelligence level is lower than average level of Cagliarias zoo ahahahahaha.

Dude we can take an IQ test if you're in that mood again.

[deleted_user0]

garja taking iq test

[Garja]

You good at arts. Too bad you're terrible at everything else. Keep dodging tho.

[deleted_user0]

Says virgin Italiano who's still living at moms basement and making shit computer game patches

[gibson]

No flaem plz

[Garja]

That's simply not true lol. Also you crossing the line with the insults, I'm warning you.

[momuuu]

You could consider arguing with someone without going for the ad hominem in your first 3 posts somppu.

Lets take two hypotetical units:
Unit A, 200 hp, 20 attack
Unit B, 100 hp, 10 attack
You'd at first say that 2 times unit B breaks even with unit A. But the fact is, that two B's average 15 damage over the fight (because at some one unit B is going to die. 50% less hp resulted in 25% less damage. The maths on 20% less hp is somewhat harder to just to do heart, but Id expect it to (ignoring overkill, be a 10% nerf in attack.

So russian musks have 20% less hp and 30% less attack (adjusted for losing attack power more quickly). You could say that makes them 25% worse than normal musks, which is coincidentally how much cheaper they are. In a winning battle, where few of your musks are going to die, this effect is less apparent. This 10% doesnt apply if musks dont die. So in battles where you are winning or not losing a lot of musks, their musks are more efficient than euro musks.

Then you have the pathing. More units path more poorly, which kinda is a problem for russian units for sure. Hard to say how much that is worth though.

Then there is the number of hits they need per death/kill. If you remove 10 hp from a unit, but they still survive 6 shots from another unit, thats basically like not nerfing them at all. Theres tons of units though. Itd be interesting to run the numbers: how many hits do all somewhat frequently used units require to kill a musks and a russian musk, and then calculate how much of an hp merf that is percentage wise (for example, 10 -> 9 hits is a 10% nerf, 2 -> 1 hit is a 50% nerf) overall. Id not be surprised if its simply 20% hp less. This result can also be applied to the hp thing I described in the first alinea.

[iNcog]

Yeh can have the interesting discussion without going into flame wars.

[Kaiserklein]

Kaiserclown logic:
1. OVERKILLING IS REAL AND HUGE ADVANTAGE HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE
2. *Someone tells Kaiserclown that it's not that simple and there are also other side*
3. INVALID ARGUMENT CAUSE OVERKILL EXISTS HUEHUEHUEHUE

Why I even bother to argue with 10 year old Kaiserclowns

My logic : trying russian musks vs normal musks in editor mode, and then conclude from what I see, with several tries, and different army sizes.
Your logic : flaming because that's all you can do, since you're not able to argue properly.

Btw, I guess you noticed that when you attack move skirms (I wonder why 21 range btw) most of time they won't split their fire with 3 shots per enemy musk ? Yeah I'm sure you did. So what so we care if they need 3 instead of 4 shots, since it will almost never make a difference if you have 15+ skirms ? Or maybe your micro is so godly that you manage to split them perfectly and not overkill anything, then yeah russian musks are crap !
Ofc with small armies russian musks die faster and don't get too much overkilled, but overall they do... You never played this game or what ? It's like saying strelets don't get overkilled, wtf

Did you even try to put units in the scenario editor? As far as I remember 24 russian muskets (barely) beat 20 normal musks.

Nah he's so sure he's right he won't even try it... Yet when you do you see clearly that russ musks > normal musks