Archery

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No Flag rio222
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Archery

Post by rio222 »

Hello girls and boys. Especially girls... boys have pretty slow brains (except Zuta, H2O and Sam the Wise) so I am less concerned about them, I have to one and MAJOR, observation: archers, ladies, in aoe3 miss the target! And they do that by 20% of their shots!!! This is valid for ALL archer units - crossbow, aenna, longbow, yumi, whatever alike! So, keep that in mind next time you micro your troops, ladies... :lol:
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No Flag thebritish
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Re: Archery

Post by thebritish »

I dont get it.
Why did you wrote this?
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Re: Archery

Post by Kaiserklein »

Are you sure it's 20% ? It seems much, if there were a 20% chance that each bow miss you would almost never one shot a musk with 8 bows... The probability would be 0.8^8 = 0.167, which is more or less 1 in 6...
Anyway, I'd like to add that we could remove this feature for xbows. Because for one thing, it's all about luck if you one shot a musk or not with 8 bows, and for another xbows are underpowered so it could be a slight buff.

thebritish wrote:I dont get it.
Why did you wrote this?

Maybe now you understand how we react when we see half your posts
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Archery

Post by thebritish »

Kaiserklein wrote:Are you sure it's 20% ? It seems much, if there were a 20% chance that each bow miss you would almost never one shot a musk with 8 bows... The probability would be 0.8^8 = 0.167, which is more or less 1 in 6...
Anyway, I'd like to add that we could remove this feature for xbows. Because for one thing, it's all about luck if you one shot a musk or not with 8 bows, and for another xbows are underpowered so it could be a slight buff.

thebritish wrote:I dont get it.
Why did you wrote this?

Maybe now you understand how we react when we see half your posts

that means i have 1500 good posts compared to your 1100 posts.
i still have 400 more posts than you which are top quality and you can't complain about that.
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
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Re: Archery

Post by Kaiserklein »

thebritish wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Are you sure it's 20% ? It seems much, if there were a 20% chance that each bow miss you would almost never one shot a musk with 8 bows... The probability would be 0.8^8 = 0.167, which is more or less 1 in 6...
Anyway, I'd like to add that we could remove this feature for xbows. Because for one thing, it's all about luck if you one shot a musk or not with 8 bows, and for another xbows are underpowered so it could be a slight buff.

thebritish wrote:I dont get it.
Why did you wrote this?

Maybe now you understand how we react when we see half your posts

that means i have 1500 good posts compared to your 1100 posts.
i still have 400 more posts than you which are top quality and you can't complain about that.

Wow so the aim is to have as many posts as possible ? Very mature, so people were right when they were saying you just spam to increase your posts count lmao
Sorry you don't have at all 1500 good posts, maybe something like 100 (not even sure about that lol). "top quality" haha so modest man you're a legend
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Archery

Post by thebritish »

YOu said that half of my posts arent good. so the other half is definitely good.
-And you cant complain that my posts are in bad quality when i have 400 more better posts than you atleast.
Also, am really sure if all of your posts are really good too.
-For example the posts which are in this topic from you.
krichk wrote: For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge thebritish
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Re: Archery

Post by Kaiserklein »

thebritish wrote:YOu said that half of my posts arent good. so the other half is definitely good.
-And you cant complain that my posts are in bad quality when i have 400 more better posts than you atleast.
Also, am really sure if all of your posts are really good too.
-For example the posts which are in this topic from you.

Well tbh I don't care about what you think so I'll stop this useless conversation here. I'll just add that everybody here knows your posts are shit that's all. And not only 50% of them lmao
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Archery

Post by KINGofOsmane »

Kaiserklein wrote:
thebritish wrote:YOu said that half of my posts arent good. so the other half is definitely good.
-And you cant complain that my posts are in bad quality when i have 400 more better posts than you atleast.
Also, am really sure if all of your posts are really good too.
-For example the posts which are in this topic from you.

Well tbh I don't care about what you think so I'll stop this useless conversation here. I'll just add that everybody here knows your posts are shit that's all. And not only 50% of them lmao

same goes for our kaiser
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Re: Archery

Post by Kaiserklein »

KINGofOsmane wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
thebritish wrote:YOu said that half of my posts arent good. so the other half is definitely good.
-And you cant complain that my posts are in bad quality when i have 400 more better posts than you atleast.
Also, am really sure if all of your posts are really good too.
-For example the posts which are in this topic from you.

Well tbh I don't care about what you think so I'll stop this useless conversation here. I'll just add that everybody here knows your posts are shit that's all. And not only 50% of them lmao

same goes for our kaiser

Well since my posts are approx 100 times more constructive than yours on these forums, because you never bring anything useful and you always flame and complain, I'm not sure your post is relevant sorry
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Archery

Post by iCourt »

While I don't disagree that an arrow sometimes misses, the causes remain unclear.

My theory: All units have 100% accuracy apart from some artillery and boats if I remember correctly. What I believe we are seeing is a left clicking action taking place before an animation completely renders. It is the same thing you're seeing with muskets shooting a villager that immediately garrisons with no damage. The animation has taken place, but no damage occurred. I believe you see it more with bows since the projectile is technically slower than the InvisibleProjectile (musket balls) animation. You can technically call it a bug, and the "fix" would be to standardize projectile animations in the air.

I've looked into it a little bit, but muskets and skirms also "miss". They have faster projectiles so it appears to happen "less". Could be something the patch team looks into, but I doubt it would be changed. Changing projectiles would make arrows animation shoot at ludicirous speed. It'd look stupid from a designer stand point.
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Brazil lemmings121
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Re: Archery

Post by lemmings121 »

pretty sure that is not as much as 20%...
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Re: Archery

Post by KINGofOsmane »

Kaiserklein wrote:
KINGofOsmane wrote:
Show hidden quotes

same goes for our kaiser

Well since my posts are approx 100 times more constructive than yours on these forums, because you never bring anything useful and you always flame and complain, I'm not sure your post is relevant sorry

damned i hoped it does
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
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Re: Archery

Post by momuuu »

iCourt wrote:While I don't disagree that an arrow sometimes misses, the causes remain unclear.

My theory: All units have 100% accuracy apart from some artillery and boats if I remember correctly. What I believe we are seeing is a left clicking action taking place before an animation completely renders. It is the same thing you're seeing with muskets shooting a villager that immediately garrisons with no damage. The animation has taken place, but no damage occurred. I believe you see it more with bows since the projectile is technically slower than the InvisibleProjectile (musket balls) animation. You can technically call it a bug, and the "fix" would be to standardize projectile animations in the air.

I've looked into it a little bit, but muskets and skirms also "miss". They have faster projectiles so it appears to happen "less". Could be something the patch team looks into, but I doubt it would be changed. Changing projectiles would make arrows animation shoot at ludicirous speed. It'd look stupid from a designer stand point.

Are you saying the missing is basically a graphical bug?

Kaiser and thebritish, can you please stop the flaming.
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Re: Archery

Post by iCourt »

I'm saying y'all are clicking too fast. :P

But happens when units are moving usually. I don't see it when they're static.
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Re: Archery

Post by Kaiserklein »

iCourt wrote:While I don't disagree that an arrow sometimes misses, the causes remain unclear.

My theory: All units have 100% accuracy apart from some artillery and boats if I remember correctly. What I believe we are seeing is a left clicking action taking place before an animation completely renders. It is the same thing you're seeing with muskets shooting a villager that immediately garrisons with no damage. The animation has taken place, but no damage occurred. I believe you see it more with bows since the projectile is technically slower than the InvisibleProjectile (musket balls) animation. You can technically call it a bug, and the "fix" would be to standardize projectile animations in the air.

I've looked into it a little bit, but muskets and skirms also "miss". They have faster projectiles so it appears to happen "less". Could be something the patch team looks into, but I doubt it would be changed. Changing projectiles would make arrows animation shoot at ludicirous speed. It'd look stupid from a designer stand point.

No I'm 100% sure arrows miss they target sometimes. You will never see a musket ball missing its target, but sometimes you see an arrow falling on the floor. And anyway when I play Time to micro, and I got 8 bows 5 musks, the 8 bows sometimes simply don't one shot the musk, and it's not because i click too fast etc
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Archery

Post by thebritish »

iCourt wrote:While I don't disagree that an arrow sometimes misses, the causes remain unclear.

My theory: All units have 100% accuracy apart from some artillery and boats if I remember correctly. What I believe we are seeing is a left clicking action taking place before an animation completely renders. It is the same thing you're seeing with muskets shooting a villager that immediately garrisons with no damage. The animation has taken place, but no damage occurred. I believe you see it more with bows since the projectile is technically slower than the InvisibleProjectile (musket balls) animation. You can technically call it a bug, and the "fix" would be to standardize projectile animations in the air.

I've looked into it a little bit, but muskets and skirms also "miss". They have faster projectiles so it appears to happen "less". Could be something the patch team looks into, but I doubt it would be changed. Changing projectiles would make arrows animation shoot at ludicirous speed. It'd look stupid from a designer stand point.

I dont think thats a bug.
-That has been to be that way, so archer units besides being able to miss when shooting, they can hit units which are out of their range..
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Re: Archery

Post by Kaiserklein »

I just tried in the editor mode : I spawned 33 groups of "8 bows vs 1 musk". I checked the hp left for each musk, after a volley from the 8 bows ; 15 times one arrow missed (you literally see the arrow fall on the floor, near the musk) and twice 2 arrows missed. So basically it means that half the time you won't one shot a musk with 8 bows, and that, overall, 19 bows out of 264 missed their target (approx 7.2%). So we're far from the 20% of the OP, but it's still a rather huge number.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Archery

Post by yoqpasa »

I wonder if there are more variables, like distance, target movement, target size or target speed.
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Re: Archery

Post by iCourt »

Could also be the code that is designed to show the projectile on the ground. Crossbow is designed to have 100% accuracy if I'm remembering correctly. I can pull up the code tonight for bows and the projectile it uses and post it in spoilers. Let y'all debate it.
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Re: Archery

Post by Kaiserklein »

Idk if it's designed to have 100% accuracy but it doesn't
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Archery

Post by rio222 »

Ok, so last night I pull the 20% out of my ass because I was seeing the world through a bottle of red wine!! Don't judge me on this, but the archers miss, this is a fact. It is prob. a design made thing to outline their "archaic" character vs gunpowder units. I tested it in editor as well, and I found that Kaiser's results are accurate. Now, I can't find the archery tactics anywhere in game files, probably because I'm on a mac. So if anyone can do the research on a Windows machine, we will know if it is such a big deal in practice or not. In AOE2 archers miss also, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpzOTdItUGA and the other two clips about accuracy.
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Re: Archery

Post by Papist »

I like it that arrows sometimes miss the target - it makes the game far more accurate. I actually miss the inaccurate bows of AoE2 - it meant that players could avoid taking damage if they microed well enough. It still is truly a pleasure to watch a player like TheViper. As for bow accuracy in this game, has anyone looked at Chu Ko Nus? I am almost certain that those things miss more than other units.
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Re: Archery

Post by iCourt »

rio222 wrote:Ok, so last night I pull the 20% out of my ass because I was seeing the world through a bottle of red wine!! Don't judge me on this, but the archers miss, this is a fact. It is prob. a design made thing to outline their "archaic" character vs gunpowder units. I tested it in editor as well, and I found that Kaiser's results are accurate. Now, I can't find the archery tactics anywhere in game files, probably because I'm on a mac. So if anyone can do the research on a Windows machine, we will know if it is such a big deal in practice or not. In AOE2 archers miss also, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpzOTdItUGA and the other two clips about accuracy.


It's in the .bar file. You'll need AOE3ED to access it. I just have't had time to look into it.
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Re: Archery

Post by rio222 »

Yeah, I know but AOE3ED doesn't work on my Yosemite for a insane reason, so no go there.
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Re: Archery

Post by fei123456 »

my life becomes colorful when i see thebritish's posts. that makes me happy everyday!

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