Beating Russia with French...
Beating Russia with French...
I played Russia for quite some time now and I am by no means a strong Russian player, but I think that you either need a very well thought out and customised semi-ff or constant pressure against those civs. Your boom just isn't good enough to hold against potential fortress pressure and too slow to keep up with their booms. You need to always trade off a little army or economy (having idle tc time but getting more pressure to do some economical damage) until your efficient villagers and bojars kick in. Theoretically Russian musketeers aren't bad, but costing less and being low quality also has it's downsides. If you don't have a big infantry ball then hussars (+musk) can attack you and the huss will take much damage but they don't die whilst your musketeers all died. Also a problem if close to building facilities or shipment drop off points. So if your infantry ball is too small then a slight army difference can snowball very fast, where normal muskets would stand their ground way better. So to be save against musk/huss you need a big chunk of infantry, but then you're a bit immobile against raids. Ger vs Ru is imo very map dependent (how much gold/food and if vulnerable or not). But what is nice is that most of my opponents underestimate the power of Russian units.
BTW I am a terrible Russia player since I struggle against France a lot. Huss mm > early push, need inf mass vs cav but cdb 40% ranged resist, they can semi easily, if enough food their musk/huss beats me most of the time because france just has more units out at minute 8 and a better economy, and mixing in strelets made me too weak against cavalry. :/
BTW I am a terrible Russia player since I struggle against France a lot. Huss mm > early push, need inf mass vs cav but cdb 40% ranged resist, they can semi easily, if enough food their musk/huss beats me most of the time because france just has more units out at minute 8 and a better economy, and mixing in strelets made me too weak against cavalry. :/
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- Crossbow
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Beating Russia with French...
I haven't gone through all the things already discussed on this thread but as a pure french player, I have had rather easy time against russia. I make a stable and barrack immediately after age up, behind my tc. Queue 1 hussar + 1musk. AS i get resources, i keep stacking more units and end up spawning 5 hussar + 4 musk or 5 musk + 4 hssar (and sometimes perfect start depending on treasures). I send 700w as my 2nd card for houses + tp + steel traps etc.
The starting army + minute man + tc fire are more than sufficent to ward off the early russian rush.
Its worked for me so far upto opponents of rank captain, although to get it right you'll have to master village allocation for all starting crates use-cases + treasure combinations. I am not sure at what level you play though.
The starting army + minute man + tc fire are more than sufficent to ward off the early russian rush.
Its worked for me so far upto opponents of rank captain, although to get it right you'll have to master village allocation for all starting crates use-cases + treasure combinations. I am not sure at what level you play though.
Beating Russia with French...
France's musk huss timing can work against greedy Russia play but if they send 700g first they will have enough stuff to hold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h70QycTLdKI. I haven't tested this but I expect the timing is holdable with 700w 700g 5 coss too.
- [Armag] diarouga
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Beating Russia with French...
Btw
How should russia mirror be played?
Idk much about this mu, age with 14 or 17 vills, spice trade or 5cos?
How should russia mirror be played?
Idk much about this mu, age with 14 or 17 vills, spice trade or 5cos?
Beating Russia with French...
calmyourtits wrote:France''s musk huss timing can work against greedy Russia play but if they send 700g first they will have enough stuff to hold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h70QycTLdKI. I haven''t tested this but I expect the timing is holdable with 700w 700g 5 coss too.
If I''m not mistaken 700w 700g 5coss is what Bsop is doing recently.
- [Armag] diarouga
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Beating Russia with French...
No, he is doing spice trade 700w 5coss.garja wrote:If Im not mistaken 700w 700g 5coss is what Bsop is doing recently.calmyourtits wrote:Frances musk huss timing can work against greedy Russia play but if they send 700g first they will have enough stuff to hold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h70QycTLdKI. I havent tested this but I expect the timing is holdable with 700w 700g 5 coss too.
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Beating Russia with French...
Against germz im doing 700w 700f 700c 5 coz preferable 2 blocks at home def uhlans then push in 8:30 with 45musk 10 coz+5 otw. Against france i prefer 2 forward blocks with cosack start then just post back musks if he start huss first musk batch after ST and placer mines done,then i do 700w for 2nd bh and houses can also do a 700c after for ageup or just 700f for bigger mass and ur fine.
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Beating Russia with French...
700f?!blackstar wrote:Against germz im doing 700w 700f 700c 5 coz preferable 2 blocks at home def uhlans then push in 8:30 with 45musk 10 coz+5 otw. Against france i prefer 2 forward blocks with cosack start then just post back musks if he start huss first musk batch after ST and placer mines done,then i do 700w for 2nd bh and houses can also do a 700c after for ageup or just 700f for bigger mass and ur fine.
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Beating Russia with French...
Ye i do 700f and i do my 2nd gold up with it then i just spamm constant 5/5 musks i can outmass french by like 30 musk in 2 mins xD also i send 600f aswell depends just if france stay in colonial or not
Beating Russia with French...
I think the reason Russian musks are bad is because of the low HP. If a cav unit comes close to a musk, the musk has a bit of delay before it starts attacking in melee mode. The problem with Russian musks is they have so low HP that when cav comes close to them, they die in a few hits so they go trough that long delay but then die fast after they are in melee.
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Beating Russia with French...
Pro tip: you don't go meele with all your musks until he surrounds you. Try just kiting next time.
Beating Russia with French...
I don''t put all in melee lol I put only a few of them from the front in melee. I''m saying if you leave the musks alone they will shoot until the huss come close, but then they will automatically switch to melee. But when a musk switches automatically to melee, it doesn''t attack the huss at all for a second or so, and in that second the huss already does so much damage to the musk that it doesn''t survive much longer.garja wrote:Pro tip: you don''t go meele with all your musks until he surrounds you. Try just kiting next time.
My point is that if you have 10 normal musks vs cav and 20 half-as-good musks vs cav, the 10 will do much better.
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Beating Russia with French...
Actually it depends on many factors. 20 half-as-good units instead of 10 may actually be better depending on the surround, etc.
In the case of Russia is just 20% less good. It is a weakness when you have few units but when you have a decent mass it is actually a strenght. Each cav can only attack one unit so the pathing will be quite problematic. That's why you always want to kite till you're forced to go meele.
About the strike animation I think it's the same for huss and musks but ofc you have to consider the 3.0 ROF if you already fired.
In the case of Russia is just 20% less good. It is a weakness when you have few units but when you have a decent mass it is actually a strenght. Each cav can only attack one unit so the pathing will be quite problematic. That's why you always want to kite till you're forced to go meele.
About the strike animation I think it's the same for huss and musks but ofc you have to consider the 3.0 ROF if you already fired.
Beating Russia with French...
It's not about hussar doing the damage, after all a hussar does the same damage to a musk (meele resist) than a musketeer would shooting. So it's about having to deal with the damage tanking hussars while enemy musketeer shot you down unharmed. And russian musketeer being weaker means that their count will snowball down faster, but the pros are that the enemy will likely overkill them a bit.
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
Beating Russia with French...
In my few experiences, stable start with 5coss->'4coss->'13strel + MM wins welldiarouga wrote:Btw
How should russia mirror be played?
Idk much about this mu, age with 14 or 17 vills, spice trade or 5cos?
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Beating Russia with French...
Samwise12 made in the Saturday Smackdown something "new" and won.iamsoldier wrote:In my few experiences, stable start with 5coss->'4coss->'13strel + MM wins welldiarouga wrote:Btw
How should russia mirror be played?
Idk much about this mu, age with 14 or 17 vills, spice trade or 5cos?
Skip shipment in Age 1
14 vill Age up
skip producing vills
make streletes
+ fast Shipments 5 cos/ 4 cos/13 strel ->' attack
Dont know, maybe is this the new standard BO in this mirror.
Darwin played a cos/musk Combo early with constant villager production, while training musk and cos from shipments, i think.
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Beating Russia with French...
lordcharlie131 wrote:Samwise12 made in the Saturday Smackdown something "new" and won.iamsoldier wrote:In my few experiences, stable start with 5coss->4coss->13strel + MM wins well
Skip shipment in Age 1
14 vill Age up
skip?producing vills
make streletes
+ fast Shipments?5?cos/ 4 cos/13 strel?-> attack?
Dont know, maybe is this the new standard BO in this mirror.
Darwin played a cos/musk?Combo early with constant villager production, while training musk?and cos from shipments,?i think.?
I watched obs between Blackstar and somppukunkku where somppu skipped wood trickle to gain early military adv with 1 extra mili shipment early colonial, however he got molested Like shit. Ofc the skill gap between them is quite significant but I think skipping wood trickle is still quite silly.
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Beating Russia with French...
I haven't played Russian mirror much if at all, but from what I've seen a lot of it depends on where the blockhouses are. I'm not sure what to do if the blockhouses are in different locations, but if both are forward it seems best to skip vills and ship units until someone prevails and kills the other's blockhouse. After killing the blockhouse you probably have a small window to deal damage while he rebuilds the blockhouse, and can probably force a minutemen pop and maybe even kill a couple of vills, and then you just fall back and hold the map to win.
Dunno about skipping the first shipment, I feel like I would still ship wood trickle or 300w and maybe build a TP in transition if I expected both blockhouses to be forward. That being said, I've never tested this build, so I have no clue if you can continuously make units after taking the TP in transition with the wood trickle. It's very possible that you can't do it without good treasures' with 300w it should be possible though.
Dunno about skipping the first shipment, I feel like I would still ship wood trickle or 300w and maybe build a TP in transition if I expected both blockhouses to be forward. That being said, I've never tested this build, so I have no clue if you can continuously make units after taking the TP in transition with the wood trickle. It's very possible that you can't do it without good treasures' with 300w it should be possible though.
Beating Russia with French...
Back in the day it was quite common for full coss for the first 8-9 mins before even making a BH, given Russian musk suck and coss have two upgrade cards before age 3
Beating Russia with French...
Is the Russian cheaper monks a good card to send after the usual stuff in a mirror match? Them having 405 hp 10% ranged resist and costing only 100 coin is quite a nice meat shield.
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- Crossbow
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Beating Russia with French...
I saw your match against garja. It was a nice rush indeed but he could have held up if he had stayed in tc range and not come forward to attack you, right? In my matches, the opponent didnt capture my forward hunts, instead was closer to his base or on side (rockies map), so maybe thats why I didnt struggle. But if I have to try solve the problem thread started described, I would try this idea from a veni''s game that what if we send minuteman, if we scout a forward russian villie? Then kill it before it can complete rax? I saw veni do it to an otto guy, same can be tried for russian to delay them.calmyourtits wrote:France''s musk huss timing can work against greedy Russia play but if they send 700g first they will have enough stuff to hold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h70QycTLdKI. I haven''t tested this but I expect the timing is holdable with 700w 700g 5 coss too.
In that case I would just go 5 hussar semi-ff.
Will be much harder to execute than to just say it though..
Beating Russia with French...
if you want to play nasty, always send mm (especially vs the ones who are convinced building the fb with 1vill is pro) vs russia and/or send a french vill (if small map) to bkherd so u can raid him easy/he will fb at home. that's some phish strategy right there
-->' the rage it brings/destabilize the player is totally worth spending 300 ress
-->' the rage it brings/destabilize the player is totally worth spending 300 ress
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Beating Russia with French...
It wasn't a rush and the problem wasn't defending it. Just French run out of resources while Russia has the map. And also Russia has best 3 unit combo as well as better eco as the game progresses.
Beating Russia with French...
Doesn''t india win late age 2 vs Russia even if Russia has infinite hunts?garja wrote:It wasn''t a rush and the problem wasn''t defending it. Just French run out of resources while Russia has the map. And also Russia has best 3 unit combo as well as better eco as the game progresses.
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