what's the more lame in late game team games ?

[Rikikipu]

I'm curious to know, what do you think guys ?

[Mr_Bramboy]

Cheddar's posts.

[momuuu]

tough choice haha. I went with cuirassier spam because I feel like that is on top of an already great civilisation in team games. Ashi everywhere shouldnt be possible if you wall up, right? In lategame, genitours feels not as OP and I dont really think opri spam truly works once the map is properly walled up. Old Han might be more lame though, but china is pretty shitty and the composition is very immobile so I'm not quite sure I'd call that lame.

[Rikikipu]

Cheddar's posts.

Hahaha trust me or not, I've thought the same when I've written it xD

[Papist]

I would say opri, simply because that strategy simply involves actively avoiding fighting, and dancing around the map instead.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Old han and genitour are very strong but you can't raid that much with bows or goons (you can with goons but that's not really effective).
Do I'd say either ashi raids or cuir spam because both are very strong units, with a good siege and they kill vills very easily, while opris can't really fight an army.
With the shogun you can also train 2-3 moraturus to kill your opponents' buildings which is lame as well, that's why I'd say ashi raids.

[deleted_user]

20 range goons?

[forgrin]

Cuir spam definitely. Cuirs beat everything but well-micro'd goons, and on top of that French have the best skirmishers. Honestly, what were the devs thinking lol.
IMO 20 range goons are good but they don't win games in the same way that ashi and cuirs do. There's a reason why you don't see goons in treaty much, the unit type simply isn't as useful in extreme lategame.

[deleted_user]

Hm.. let's give a civ the same/if not better eco as all others, with 20 less pop, then give them the best cav in the game, then give them the best skirmishers. And also a native scout age 1 by default cuz why not.

[BrookG]

Opri ofc. When you are busy fighting and spaming units, dem opris come and destroy vils and houses. The definition of raid

[momuuu]

I mean, aren't opri and ashi raids mostly countered by walling up well? I feel like gendarme spam is lame regardless of if you are raiding or jsut trading.

[iNcog]

isn't old han the answer?

[[Armag] diarouga]

walls don't matter vs opris lol.
30 opris will kill a stone wall in 10sec and you invested 1000w for one wall (in team) and 1000 more resources for the upgrade.
You can wall with goons behind vs a cuir spam as well and it will be much more effective.

[Darwin_]

All of them except ashi spam lol.

[Papist]

Instant cuir with 4 mortars taking out walls and military buildings should not be underestimated. However I would still say opri are worse because they are in the game for the sole purpose of running. There is no static counter to them, and they can usually kill a few vils before you get rid of them. Opri also force you to pull back all of your troops to your base, which cannot be underestimated.

[momuuu]

I think you can deal with opris running around using your pure goon composition that you usually have. Although all are lame I think cuir spam is the least cheesy one in ultra lategame.

[pecelot]

Ashis are the most effective units per pop in the game I'd say, so you can make tons of them: 20 raiding one side, 20 other, 40 in your army, and you still have 45 population left (if you maxed vills).

[musketjr]

Cuir spam definitely. Cuirs beat everything but well-micro'd goons, and on top of that French have the best skirmishers. Honestly, what were the devs thinking lol.
IMO 20 range goons are good but they don't win games in the same way that ashi and cuirs do. There's a reason why you don't see goons in treaty much, the unit type simply isn't as useful in extreme lategame.

No no no. In tr they have 5 layers of walls plus only play on maps with inca. So they also have instantly training units, meaning there is little risk in going mostly skirm/cannons as well as the advantages of mobility being totally shut out

[musketjr]

It's genitaurs, age 6 crossbow pike in age 4 and gendarmes. Can't pick between the 3

[Papist]

I think you can deal with opris running around using your pure goon composition that you usually have. Although all are lame I think cuir spam is the least cheesy one in ultra lategame.

It's not a question of whether you can deal with opri (they die very easily to dragoons, which is one of their few redeeming factors), it's a question of whether you can deal with them in time (before they kill a ton of vils or a factory), and how much pop you need to stop them. Because Russia's core units all cost 1 pop, they can send 20 opri to the side of your base while continuing to apply pressure on the front. You on the other hand, have goons that cost 2 pop.

[momuuu]

Well in late teamgames they still have to trade cost effectively, so if you properly place walls on the map you should see them coming in time imo. They're not even considered very lame in Treaty I think, so I don't think they're lame in lategame team games if you're decent at the map awareness.

[KINGofOsmane]

nothing beats age 5 cuirs lol

[lordraphael]

I think you can deal with opris running around using your pure goon composition that you usually have. Although all are lame I think cuir spam is the least cheesy one in ultra lategame.

It's not a question of whether you can deal with opri (they die very easily to dragoons, which is one of their few redeeming factors), it's a question of whether you can deal with them in time (before they kill a ton of vils or a factory), and how much pop you need to stop them. Because Russia's core units all cost 1 pop, they can send 20 opri to the side of your base while continuing to apply pressure on the front. You on the other hand, have goons that cost 2 pop.

opris cost 2 pop

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah it's a hard choice indeed, but I guess cuir spam wins it because fort stats scaling + insta and cheap spam + a lot of upgrades + 120 pop
Old han and genitours are OP but not in "real" lategame I think. I mean, 20 range goons are insanely lame, but it mostly is around 15-20 min in the game, not once people walled up and have age 5 units. Same for old han, kinda the same timing.
Ashis are really good but they are still musks, not that OP in late game. I mean, brit musks are insane as well, I guess a bit less strong than ashis in late game, and a bit slower, but still brit musks aren't considered lame. Skirms with the arsenal upgrade probs do rather fine against that.
Opris... I hesitated between opris and cuir spam. Opris also have an op scaling (3 hc upgrades + arsenal upgrade, from fortress stats) and are really annoying, but like old han and genitours, it's more OP before everyone walled up and stuff. Once you enter real lategame, cuir spam will be more annoying because it just reks your army, while opris can more or less be dealt with.

tough choice haha. I went with cuirassier spam because I feel like that is on top of an already great civilisation in team games. Ashi everywhere shouldnt be possible if you wall up, right? In lategame, genitours feels not as OP and I dont really think opri spam truly works once the map is properly walled up. Old Han might be more lame though, but china is pretty shitty and the composition is very immobile so I'm not quite sure I'd call that lame.

China is shitty ? What ?

[Garja]

I dont even know if those things can be considerated lame. If that's the case then it's probably just the team game mode that is lame in the first place.
Having to chose probably old han is the real broken thing.