what's the more lame in late game team games ?

[pecelot]

Yes, I find it more annoying, too. Spread out musketeer-type units are harder to counter than heavy cavalry since you can chase cuirs or opris with faster goons, whereas usual RI is even slower than ashis, who counter cav.

[momuuu]

But against ashi you can make walls in the ultra lategame. It can be lame in the midgame though.

[pecelot]

Just like you can wall against a cuir or opri raids to give yourself enough time to catch them with goons.

[r4go]

nothing beats age 5 cuirs lol

Jinette Age 5??

[gibson]

nothing beats age 5 cuirs lol

Jinette Age 5??

veteran pike mans

[pecelot]

imp halbz???

[Lukas_L99]

Genitours as Aztec or Russian for sure, can barely touch goons...
In team games gend I guess

[Darwin_]

I still don't think the training time is more problematic that the fact that they get a free +18% upgrade once you upgrade them to imperial.

That is true, but if you make them scale off of colonial stats, I do believe that their imperial hand attack would be 50 as apposed to 57, and their HP would be 833 as opposed to 1000.

[hunter]

taylor swift is more lame in late games

[pecelot]

notification

@rikikipu

[momuuu]

I still don't think the training time is more problematic that the fact that they get a free +18% upgrade once you upgrade them to imperial.

That is true, but if you make them scale off of colonial stats, I do believe that their imperial hand attack would be 50 as apposed to 57, and their HP would be 833 as opposed to 1000.

And that'd be a well deserved nerf. Idk about the precise numbers but its nonsense that they get so mant free stats because ES didnt understand the concept of consistency.

Its also clearly one of the, if not the only reason why they are too strong. Fortress:good but balanced. Industrial: Pretty OP. Imperial: broken af. Seems to suit the scaling issue.

[Panmaster]

Instant daimyos due to the Lakota or commanche indian upgrade was pretty lame back in the good old days. You could play like a god for 2 hours then someone screws up, daimyos get in, all your economy, strategy and skill counts for nothing, game over.

[666_X]

I feel like yumi is missing it's more lame than ashi and old han for sure

[Papist]

If cuir weren't instant, they would probably be fine.

[Hazza54321]

If cuir weren't instant, they would probably be fine.

hardly, theyre still unkillable except for high upgraded goons

[Garja]

and CAs and ERKs and dopps and BR and Zambs. What were you countering Cuirs with?

[yurashic]

and CAs and ERKs and dopps and BR and Zambs. What were you countering Cuirs with?

Since it is Hazza54321, he probably was countering cuirassiers with strelets.

[Hazza54321]

say the non-team players lol, how are you going to kill 1100/900hp 66 att cuirs when they all run in eco

[Garja]

You don't. You just do the same to him with less expensive units.

[Papist]

If cuir weren't instant, they would probably be fine.

hardly, theyre still unkillable except for high upgraded goons

Cuirs can be killed (not easily but they CAN be) with well micro'd goons, cav archers, bow riders, dopps, and samurai, plus a handful of other merc/special units. The real problen, at least in my experience, is the sheer volume of them.

[deleted_user]

Just reading these poll options gave me anxiety and reminds me why I hate team games.

[momuuu]

I strongly disagree that cuirs are OP because they are instant. In treaty this might be a problem, but cav training at 10% speed is as close to instant as it gets. Within a few seconds you can field 100 army pop for 2 or 3 stables. If the instant part was so blatantly OP, then every civ with fast training hussars has the same lameness making cuirs not lame.

The problem is that an already amazing fortress age unit scales incorrectly (it scales based on fortress stats rather than colonial stats). This translates to a free 10% stat upgrade extra in industrial and 20% extra in imperial. So it basically gains them an entire 20% cav combat shipment out of nowhere on top of an already great lategame civ.

I also think the cost reduction of the age 4 card is a relatively huge buff, which is deceptively good. I believe it makes them 10% cheaper. This is about equivalent to being able to field 10/9 as many units. In the case of imperial units, which are twice as good as their base stats imply (roughly) this card is most comparable to a 20% stat increase card.

So apart from three great generic cav combat cards, france gets another 40% upgrade out of nowhere. In the super lategame, their cuirasiers are actually age 6 units.

[evilcheadar]

Genitours as Aztec or Russian for sure, can barely touch goons...
In team games gend I guess

aztec doesnt get genitours

[Hazza54321]

thank you jerom :)

[fitosone]

If cuir weren't instant, they would probably be fine.

hardly, theyre still unkillable except for high upgraded goons

Cuirs can be killed (not easily but they CAN be) with well micro'd goons, cav archers, bow riders, dopps, and samurai, plus a handful of other merc/special units. The real problen, at least in my experience, is the sheer volume of them.

If you are playing with japan, just send samurai upgrades and make a couple of hatamotos to mix with your normal samurai, a couple of hatamotos can deal with a big amount of cavalry in seconds, and they cost export so even better when you are on an eco war.