Can we still create new strategies?

[NekoBerk]

I had this big question along all this time, because the game has even more than 10 years since it was released, and i don't know if all the strategys were created yet, or we can still innovating with new strategys for this crazy game .


What do you think?

[Aykin Haraka]

I created my own strategy hard rush with india but only me know it and how to do it, but it is not good aswell, you just have no eco but nice army fast.

[NekoBerk]

I created my own strategy hard rush with india but only me know it and how to do it, but it is not good aswell, you just have no eco but nice army fast.

Well, i just played a tournament against a british guy who does 3 manor houses in first age, and he age up with 18 vills, then in transition he does the market and its improvements and he just cut down trees till he get 400w, then when he arrives to colonial age with the politic that gives you 500F (in a really good time, even faster than me), he does double barrack and he send 700G
for make a really strong spam of musks in his two barracks, it's really OP, but you don't make eco, because you sacrifice all in that rush, but your spam it's really constant and really hard to stop.

[giveuanxiety]

standard play is better than random strategies that arent well tested and efficient. However the recent tournaments show that there are indeed strategies that haven't been found yet at the most competitive level of play. This is mainly due to the very large number of different civ MU's there are and the large number of maps which require different play per map. Examples from the last tours were boneng vs garja china mirror where boneng did a crazy disciple rush and won, and acergamer vs h20 where acer did a faster age 3 and got petards from consule asap to kill h20 wonder.

[Kaiserklein]

I created my own strategy hard rush with india but only me know it and how to do it, but it is not good aswell, you just have no eco but nice army fast.

Well, i just played a tournament against a british guy who does 3 manor houses in first age, and he age up with 18 vills, then in transition he does the market and its improvements and he just cut down trees till he get 400w, then when he arrives to colonial age with the politic that gives you 500F (in a really good time, even faster than me), he does double barrack and he send 700G
for make a really strong spam of musks in his two barracks, it's really OP, but you don't make eco, because you sacrifice all in that rush, but your spam it's really constant and really hard to stop.

I think this is actually the aklak rush, not a new strat.

There are still new strats to be invented though. Or rather : I think almost everything has been done, but a lot has been forgotten/wasn't used perfectly so we can still refine builds. For example, im pretty sure a lot of people already made mercs strats in the pest, but I tried to get a neat build to do it. I've also seen a lot of spain atp on nilla some time ago, but the way H2O plays it is probs better. Also having a fan patch helps a lot, because new balance means new strats : for example silk road as otto is something that really wasn't viable before, but is probs viable in some cases now on EP.

[fei123456]

non-standard bos are still available: your opponent doesnt scout well, map issue (big treasures), etc.
also, the fan patch will lead to a lot of different and interesting new build orders.
sadly few play ep

[Papist]

The player base tends to be very rigid, and attached to traditional "meta" builds, making it difficult for anything new to catch on. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but for the most part people are using the same builds they have been using for years. This is something that a small number of players like Aizamk exploit. Because your opponent will be playing standard and expecting you to do the same, you know exactly what he will doing when. With this in mind, you can come up with a new build that both counters what he will be doing and catches him completely off guard. In other words, the player base's blind adherence to old strats leaves a window for new (albeit usually gimmicky or situational) ones.

[rickytickitembo]

The player base tends to be very rigid, and attached to traditional "meta" builds, making it difficult for anything new to catch on. There are exceptions to the rule of course, but for the most part people are using the same builds they have been using for years. This is something that a small number of players like Aizamk exploit. Because your opponent will be playing standard and expecting you to do the same, you know exactly what he will doing when. With this in mind, you can come up with a new build that both counters what he will be doing and catches him completely off guard. In other words, the player base's blind adherence to old strats leaves a window for new (albeit usually gimmicky or situational) ones.

Also, Aiz will do similar build as Original Poster mentioned but instead he gets two stables and with 700 gold and get about 10 cav out on the first batch which is pretty tough to beat.

I think every strat has been tried to some extent up to this point but viable options seem to spring up every once in a while that aren't considered standard.

[Ashvin]

standard play is better than random strategies that arent well tested and efficient. However the recent tournaments show that there are indeed strategies that haven't been found yet at the most competitive level of play. This is mainly due to the very large number of different civ MU's there are and the large number of maps which require different play per map. Examples from the last tours were boneng vs garja china mirror where boneng did a crazy disciple rush and won, and acergamer vs h20 where acer did a faster age 3 and got petards from consule asap to kill h20 wonder.

link to disciple rush game?

EDIT: np i got that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH4x9nxyFHw

[giveuanxiety]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... H4x9nxyFHw
Game 1

[Ashvin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=408&v=VH4x9nxyFHw
Game 1

thanx :)

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yeah, you can really create new builds.
Tbh this year, we've seen like 5 new builds (I mean viable builds).

[Jaeger]

Yeah this game is way way way more complicated than chess. I think if 2 computers played this game, it would look a LOT different. Some unviable strats would become viable and some viable would become unviable just due to 100% perfect micro.

[Mitoe]

Yeah, you can really create new builds.
Tbh this year, we've seen like 5 new builds (I mean viable builds).

Pretty sure there's been more than that

Anyway, there are tons of ways to play each civ, and there are surely lots of different ways that aren't exactly "viable" yet. They probably aren't always drastically different from the norm, but subtle changes to certain builds can still make a big difference to their success.

[yemshi]

Yes

[momuuu]

I used to think everyone had been thought of already. The more I got to read and speak with h2o, garja and diarouga the more I decided that they are rather unflexible and that there must be off meta strats that are great.

Yes, its probably been done before so its not really new but I consider all non meta strats kinda new. Theres lots of room to experiment amd find new variations.

[CelticCrusader]

I think the lower the level your at the more strategies that are viable online. For example I won a game recently by trolling them doing a 5/10 Russian rush, he obviously didn't expect it so lost, but a higher level player probably would of scouted it and prepared for it.

[zoom]

No, you cannot – thus sayeth Lord Mankl the Mad!

[arcangelusregis]

I created my own strategy hard rush with india but only me know it and how to do it, but it is not good aswell, you just have no eco but nice army fast.

Well, i just played a tournament against a british guy who does 3 manor houses in first age, and he age up with 18 vills, then in transition he does the market and its improvements and he just cut down trees till he get 400w, then when he arrives to colonial age with the politic that gives you 500F (in a really good time, even faster than me), he does double barrack and he send 700G
for make a really strong spam of musks in his two barracks, it's really OP, but you don't make eco, because you sacrifice all in that rush, but your spam it's really constant and really hard to stop.

Yesterday u were facing a brit mirror.. since u used virginia company u should have relied more on defensive boom and shipments that came from manor's booming imo.. he went double raxs and simply outmassed u.. i think u should have scouted and microed better to adapt the meta ..with germans u should have splitted the musks since u were losing all ur vills from a two sided raid..

[Rikikipu]

Usually, people just don't want to create new strats in this game because they prefer to stay standard which are oftenly really good BOs because in this way they can win and gain power which is the main goal for them to play this game.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yeah, you can really create new builds.
Tbh this year, we've seen like 5 new builds (I mean viable builds).

Pretty sure there's been more than that

Anyway, there are tons of ways to play each civ, and there are surely lots of different ways that aren't exactly "viable" yet. They probably aren't always drastically different from the norm, but subtle changes to certain builds can still make a big difference to their success.

Not really, some builds are fun or work only one time, they don't become standard.
@Jerom

notification

It's not a matter of being unflexible but I can tell that some builds are bad without testing.
The bos you suggested recently are just old bos with a different card order.
In some situations, it's easy to see which one is better.

[Akechi_Mitsuhide]

Interesting discussion guys and I quite like the grammar of the heading! Can we still invent new forms of grammar?

[pecelot]

It's rude to make fun of non-native speakers!

[yemshi]

Yeah, I demand permanent bans for that.