Thoroughbreds in 1v1?

[pecelot]

I used to have that card in each of my 1v1 French decks, but after some time I came to conclusion that I've never actually sent it nor had a real opportunity to do so and removed it almost entirely. I recall only one game out of let's say 100 in which it would be somewhat viable. Another question is whether it's actually worth a space? IMO instead of Riding School and Thoroughbreds French decks should consist of for example Sustainable Agriculture, Cigar Roller, Food Silos or Rum Distillery, so basically late-game eco cards. When the games comes to such a stage when you'd consider sending these, I think it's more about how many units you can get out on the field, not how quickly. That's a valid argument against Riding School, but Thoroughbreds have one more feature: decreasing the cost of Cuirassiers, which is actually pretty beneficial for your economy as well. But does it make this particular Industrial Age card good enough to outweigh eco counterparts?
Please share your genuine opinions in this matter, guys, I'm curiours to read those! Do you have these cards in your decks? Maybe you can recommend better equivalents?

[yemshi]

No, unless I'm trolling.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Both Riding School and Thoroughbreads are not viable in 1v1, simply because you're going to be sending the (age 1) mill upgrade, factories, and economic theory before you're able to send the 2 cards. In team games you should definitely include them in your deck though because games tend to go on for much longer.

[britishmusketeer]

Yea it's not worth it because there are much better age 1 cards that come into play alot more(early skirms, mill card ect)

[momuuu]

Think its about comparable to age 1 mill and plantation cards in terms of eco boost it gives.

[sdsanft]

It's just honestly not good. At pr10-15 you see a lot of French players trying to fi->thoroughbreds but it's honestly a really bad strat.

[deleted_user0]

it's not viable in your standard 1v1 deck, but if you expect that you will play a long game in which the game will definitely go IV and it will come down to who has the best eco, then ye, its a viable card.

I usually have 7 decks for each civ, 2 or 3 of them will be water decks, the rest will be land decks, 1 will be standard, the others tailorer to execute or counter a specific strat or situation. so as france, you could definitely make 1 eco heavy deck and put in thoroughbreads. I personally don't have it, but I think Irish does.

[_venox_]

About late game cards... did anybody do a rough calculation or can anybody talk from experience if late game upgrades or late game economy cards are better? Like thoroughbreads vs age 1 eco ups, I wonder about the industrial uhlan upgrade vs age 1 eco ups or the dutch +1 bank vs the mill upgrade vs tulip speculation etc...

In what matchups do you send early skirmishers though?

[evilcheadar]

thoroughbreds gives you instant gendarmes when paired with riding school and the church cav training, which is deadly

[deleted_user0]

ye eco cards are probably better, but the reason thoroughbreds is so good is because of what evilcheadar said. otherwise you can only get instant cuir training with some native tech

[pecelot]

Training time doesn't really matter, it's about how many of those you can pop out in a short amount of time.
Early skirms are only useful when you try to cheese in age 2, like against Brit or in a Fre mirror.
There are better cards even in age 4, though, like 10 CDBs or 14 skirms.

[momuuu]

You cant put in riding school for 1v1, that seems ridiculous.

[evilcheadar]

Training time does matter, having instant cuirs is so deadly. These rush players don't seem to realize many of the basic rules of rush break down in the lategame with cuirs swatting down ruyters.

[howlingwolfpaw]

its on OP card for gends no doubt... cheaper and faster train... maybe in 1v1 theres too much pressure at high games for it, but spamming gends is the most OP thing in the game. It just not meant to be

[howlingwolfpaw]

i would think if you use a lot of gends (and why wouldnt you? ) the 10% cheaper is much better than a 10% eco buff to all res

[deleted_user0]

you must lose them at an insane rate i guess.

[momuuu]

Actually not at all. The card is actually better than eco cards if you have a big bank, because the value of the bank goes up (worth more cuirs) while an eco boost doesnt affect that.

I think if youre making 50-60% cuirs you reach a breakeven point when comparing it vs a 15% food or coin upgrade. At 60% its definitively better I think.

[SoldieR]

5 cruis = 750f 750g

base gather rates (.84 hunt, .6 mine)
with a 15% gold gather card = 750f 862g, you have 112g extra
112g / .6 = 186.67 VS saved with gold card

with 10% cheaper = 675f 675g, extra 75f 75g saved
75f / .84 = 89.28 VS saved, 75g / .6 = 125 VS saved, 89.28+125 = 214.28 VS saved with 10% cheaper card

That is considering hunt and mine. However, plantation and mill gather rates are different.

Plantation .5 , mill .67
112g / .5 = 224 VS saved
75f / .67 = 111.94 saved , 75g / .5 = 150 VS saved. 111.94 + 150 = 261.94 VS saved

Looks to me the 10% decrease in cost is better in either situation, which makes sense, because 20% is indeed greater than 15%.
(VS = Villager Seconds, or, the amount of time it takes one villager to gather any resource, with gather rates taken into account)
This is considering 100% of your units being cruis, or costing only food and gold. Eco theory should make a closer argument than a 15% single res card.

[momuuu]

Except that you're never making 100% cuirs. But yeah, when you're making many of them it is better and it is indeed best to compare it with an eco upgrade.

[SoldieR]

just had edited that in there

[momuuu]

I dont really know how many cuirs you want to make, but putting this card in your deck is actually a pretty close call considering the other options. Its a lategame card but maybe if there are comparable lategame cards in age 1 then that helps you out more since you can still send those when stuck in fortress.

[sdsanft]

Honestly, I generally only make more than a few cuirs in certain MUs. I'm a lot of MUs it's just mostly skirm/goon so I feel like an age 2 skirm upgrade or even an age 2 hand cav upgrade are better. If you don't have any slots in age2 or age3 left though I guess it can probably be ok but I would still prefer an eco card because it is universally good, not just for cuirs which are usually less important than goons or skirms, At least in 1v1.

[pecelot]

@sdsanft

notification

, I'm talking about age 1/age 4 cards mostly in comparison with Thoroughbreads. Riding school doesn't seem very viable in the first place in 1v1s, I was just curious about that as I've seen some „pro" decks having it.
I guess it's fair then to draw a conclusion that an age 1 eco card is much more versatile, whereas Thoroughbreads are more effective, but only if you make mainly cuirs (more than a half of your army).

[howlingwolfpaw]

you must lose them at an insane rate i guess.

France is my least played civ because they are too strong. Its not fun for me to be a skilled player and have that advantage and then use a civ like France that is that strong. I like a challenging civs which is why I play India most of the time.

[howlingwolfpaw]

Also to note I have to ban France from FFA games because of this card and how strong it makes gends. being able to continuously be at pop with a very cost effective unit and spams them around the map for control making tons of stables. You have to kill the stables like with russia you have to kill the forts. But France can make tons of them. Its game breaking un-stratedy