Heavy Cavalry/Ranged Infantry tier list

[sdsanft]

Basically I'm wondering what HC beat what and what RI beat what. For example I know for HC it goes kind of like
1 cuirs
2 everything else
3 lancers
but I want to know exactly where things go like where do coss, uhlan, huss, kanya, Chinese cav, etc fall. Especially like do age 3 lancers beat age 2 huss and other stuff like that. If possible I'm also wondering something about RI like do skirms beat strel? What about age 3 skirm vs age 2 strel? Stuff like that mostly. Thanks for the help, I just want to know so I can sort of know what units beat what cost effectively.

[_NiceKING_]

You could test it in scenario editor.

[howlingwolfpaw]

I have a spreadsheet with all unit stats but I cant upload it here.

[_DB_]

Practical stats are more important than mathematical stats

[pecelot]

I have a spreadsheet with all unit stats but I cant upload it here.

Thanks, it was really helpful!
@sdsanft

notification

, ask @Jerom

notification

, he coded a program recently related to units' stats, maybe it will be useful here

[momuuu]

I have a spreadsheet with all unit stats but I cant upload it here.

Thanks, it was really helpful!
@sdsanft

notification

, ask @Jerom

notification

, he coded a program recently related to units' stats, maybe it will be useful here

The thing I made just compares hp changes and the amount of hits it takes units to kill eachother.

Im assuming were more interested in cost efficiency here, right?

[_NiceKING_]

I have a spreadsheet with all unit stats but I cant upload it here.

Thanks, it was really helpful!
@sdsanft

notification

, ask @Jerom

notification

, he coded a program recently related to units' stats, maybe it will be useful here

The thing I made just compares hp changes and the amount of hits it takes units to kill eachother.

Im assuming were more interested in cost efficiency here, right?

Does it include only base stats or including improvements?

[deleted_user0]

Basically I'm wondering what HC beat what and what RI beat what. For example I know for HC it goes kind of like
1 cuirs
2 everything else
3 lancers
but I want to know exactly where things go like where do coss, uhlan, huss, kanya, Chinese cav, etc fall. Especially like do age 3 lancers beat age 2 huss and other stuff like that. If possible I'm also wondering something about RI like do skirms beat strel? What about age 3 skirm vs age 2 strel? Stuff like that mostly. Thanks for the help, I just want to know so I can sort of know what units beat what cost effectively.

lancers are great.

[sdsanft]

Yeah basically I just want to know what beats what cost efficiently. I know cuirs beat pretty much everything, and that most standard can beat lancers cost effectively, but I'm also wondering like where Cossacks fall in the "tier list" as well as hussars, uhlans, coyotes, kanya, Chinese cav, etc.i could test it in scenario editor but I was just wondering if anyone knew off the top of their head.

[_venox_]

Since the boyars card affects cossacks HP & DMG and strelet HP & DMG all in one card where other civs have to send 2 cards to upgrade HP & DMG of either skirm or hussars Russian cossacks and strelets are more cost efficient at least during that window. If strelets get to trade against skirmishers without being outkited I think they too are really cost efficient even without the boyars upgrade.

[pecelot]

So I guess Jerom's program would be useful, as I would just count things like attack/res, HP/res, resist and such. That's basically what you should be looking at, as well as possible upgrades (for example Portuguese hussars are worse than the British ones because of home city shipments, if sent). Lancers are pretty good, but against other cav not really, as one could easily guess.

[lordraphael]

the problem with stats is that you cant define how much range is worth. Are wakinas better than skirms if you have even numbers? Just by looking at the stats you wont get an answer. Also strelets are another example. If skirms dont abuse their range advantage to the max stre annihilate them. However if they kite stre dont do shit. I remember one game vs mongo where i had like 40 skirm and some goons vs CA stre and i lost close to nothing due to constant kiting. A spreadsheet just comparing stats wont help you there.

[pecelot]

Well, I guess you can then count in range, too, and make your own assumptions based on the numbers you get.

[Jaeger]

yumi>lb>forest prowler>cassador>skirm. Not sure where wakina or arqbusier go

Uhaln>hussar (at least on non ep)

Dragoon>ryuter. Zambs are probably worse than both in goon vs goon but they are better vs cav

[momuuu]

hmm, cassadores over skirms. Interesting. I have the idea that arqebusiers are pretty cost effective myself, wakinas are probably worse than skirms. Where do gurka go?

[Jaeger]

Yes cassadors slightly beat skirms iirc. Ghurka probably go between forest prowlers and cass

[lordraphael]

Yes cassadors slightly beat skirms iirc. Ghurka probably go between forest prowlers and cass

so you only consider how they perform against each other ? Because overall skirms are better than cassas and id put lb behind any skirm unit because they have no hit and run.

[Jaeger]

Yes cassadors slightly beat skirms iirc. Ghurka probably go between forest prowlers and cass

so you only consider how they perform against each other ? Because overall skirms are better than cassas and id put lb behind any skirm unit because they have no hit and run.

Yes thats what the OP seems to be asking. Not convinced that lb<skirms but nobody plays brit

[sdsanft]

Yes I'm only interested in how well cab do against other cav and how well RI do against other RI. Are Chinese cav (meteor hammers, iron flails) any good vs other cav? I've never really tried playing with China so idk. Also I heard coyotes do pretty bad. I've also heard age 2 xbow beat age 2 skirm if you have a good way to collect wood (tps or crates).

[momuuu]

Most interesting is to just enter their hp stat and attack stat and cost in villager seconds and just check how much attack per villager second and how much hp per villager second they have. For example, if you do that for steppe riders and compare them to hussars you can easily conclude steppe riders suck. If you do ruyters vs goon and also do a ranged hp (taking RR into account) check you can see that goons are superior on RE for example.

[britishmusketeer]

Most interesting is to just enter their hp stat and attack stat and cost in villager seconds and just check how much attack per villager second and how much hp per villager second they have. For example, if you do that for steppe riders and compare them to hussars you can easily conclude steppe riders suck. If you do ruyters vs goon and also do a ranged hp (taking RR into account) check you can see that goons are superior on RE for example.

This doesn't work for a number of reasons.

[howlingwolfpaw]

Generally comparing all to hussars i think anything with an area attack like gends and spahi and mahouts are going to win when comparing equal pop (except mahout is about even or worse) I think even full uhlans are slightly less effective/ equal. but depends on civ and what cards they have. Its hard to say with chinese cav because they have a little range to them, which allows them to fight in 2 lines in large groups so that gives them an advantage even though their stats are less impressive. naginata riders are pretty bad vs other cav. axe riders are pretty good, if using teepees they obliterate anything. tuskune prowlers are pretty bad. lancers aren't good either but about equal if having full monks giving them 68 attack. chyenne riders are excellent. so are dog soilders. you can use huss to shield buildings to kill opriniks too. sowars are terrible vs cav as are stepp riders, cossacks are pretty pretty good when in large numbers but die off can start to change the tide of battle, especially if vs gends. Its really only useful to use heavy cav to fight each other if you need to create a meat shield to protect other units. Really this is most effective with france which can fight with full skirm/ gends and just use the gends to knock out any cav to counter your skirms.

I guess it comes down to what is more favorable, tankiness or high attack. Basically you just know from experience and dividing hp/ attacks to see how many hits it takes to kill a unit. Speed and range are definitely a factor.

As far as RI go this is true when looking at how effective janisaries are. low attack but since they can take several extra hits they can deal out more damage.
when looking at unit resist a 30% resist is like a 50% hp boost. a 50% reisist for cassadors is like a 100% hp boost.

[momuuu]

Most interesting is to just enter their hp stat and attack stat and cost in villager seconds and just check how much attack per villager second and how much hp per villager second they have. For example, if you do that for steppe riders and compare them to hussars you can easily conclude steppe riders suck. If you do ruyters vs goon and also do a ranged hp (taking RR into account) check you can see that goons are superior on RE for example.

This doesn't work for a number of reasons.

And your post is shit for a number of reasons.
1) you dont even explain why, and thus literally contribute nothing to the discussion
2) you dont give a tip how to do it better.

As a forum user that clicks on a notification I get I would appreciate it if youd think about what your post contributes before you post it.

[britishmusketeer]

Most interesting is to just enter their hp stat and attack stat and cost in villager seconds and just check how much attack per villager second and how much hp per villager second they have. For example, if you do that for steppe riders and compare them to hussars you can easily conclude steppe riders suck. If you do ruyters vs goon and also do a ranged hp (taking RR into account) check you can see that goons are superior on RE for example.

This doesn't work for a number of reasons.

And your post is shit for a number of reasons.
1) you dont even explain why, and thus literally contribute nothing to the discussion
2) you dont give a tip how to do it better.

As a forum user that clicks on a notification I get I would appreciate it if youd think about what your post contributes before you post it.

Sorry i'll explain. Firstly it doesn't take into account number of hits to take out different units. Uhlans for example got nerfed into the ground on ep without their percentage stats/cost change being very significant. Attack and hp are also not interchangeable. To use the example of uhlans again, uhlans look great if you look at them in the stats/cost way, but when you consider that cavalrys purpose is to tank, you realise they are pretty bad outside of cav vs cav(which they only do well in on re due to overkill). Elite units are also better than more units. So for example 12 musk would lose to 10 vet musk, despite 12 musk being 20% more than 10 musk due to damage drop off/pathing, however something with 20% more stats and cost would be calculated to have the same stats/cost.

[momuuu]

Did you read me say that you can literally just compare the unit stats and draw a conclusion based upon that? Im pretty sure I did not. The quickest way to get an idea about unit types is to just enter those numbers, they are by far the most telling numbers. What you are listing is things you can look at on top of that.

I think what you are not getting is that a rough estimate strength of a unit that can quickly obtained is much more valuable than actually calculating the precise way a unit behaves in every scenario. To be honest, if you're going to make the claim like you did, I'm wondering why you didn't suggest just testing the unit out in the scenario editor.