700w or bank first?

[horse_420]

just as the title says, as dutch should you send 700w first? because its worth more gather time than the bank wagon (350f 350w) and food needs less gather time, but in hindsight 700w needs time to gather crates and you will use a vill to build a bank which will lose you gather time, now yes in most games i think 700w is preferred because u can build rax, etc.... but lets say its a complete boomy strategy.
which is better?

[RE patch]

[gibson]

700w is boomy but if you get rushed its basically gg

[macacoalbino]

If you know you're not getting rushed you make your 2nd bank from the 400w ageup and add the military building+house+3rd bank (or market or w/e) with 700w

[sdsanft]

@Jerom

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Generally 700w is more greedy because it allows you to get 4 banks up faster buts it's kind of all on boom strat. Bank wagon is less of an investment so you can afford to get military out instead.

[AraGun]

emm? no 700 W is the more flexible build and all around best

[macacoalbino]

You don't have to put all the wood you get into banks, although it's always an option. 700w is nice to get the 2nd (and possibly 3rd) bank up a little earlier than normal, giving you extra resources.

[DaRkNiTe1698]

I wouldn't tag Jerom, no offence, I would tag Mitoe. Anyway I think 700w is better vs almost of civs

[sirmusket]

I think 700w is the better build usually yes, but if you wan't to get cav fast, dont you ship 1 bank wagon first? and if your getting rushed 1bw is better, i might be wrong, i dont play dutch almost ever, but I still think I could be right

[zoom]

IIRC it's situational; wood for greed, Wagon for war. Wagon allows for earlier military capability. As Dutch, generally speaking, greed is good if you can get away with it. I believe Wagon is the standard for the common Hussar semi-FF.

[Kaiserklein]

It's not about VS, it's about how much wood you need early on. If you want to really boom, 700w is the greediest because it is worth more and allows you to get market upgrades + a bank or even 2 banks. More importantly, 700w first means you can get a bank earlier (from 400w age up) because you'll be able to pay for your military building from 700w.
But if you know you can't afford to be too greedy anyway, then you're gonna get military + 2 houses from 400w either way and just a bank from 700w, and you'll have unused wood, and you'll have to pay 350f for the bank which means bad mass. With bank wagon, you don't spend anything, so it's just a much easier macro and allows you to mass more earlier. Also as people said you save VS from gathering crates/building the bank, + the bank goes up really fast from the wagon which is safer than building it with vils

[britishmusketeer]

I like 700w since it lets you get early steel traps although if i was starting cav vs a rush(e.g. russia) I would send bank wagon first.

[lemmings121]

I like my dutch bo:

1bank in transition, 2nd from 400w, 3 and 4 from 700w, 5th from wagon, And then die to anything

Gg

[vaso413]

I like my dutch bo:

1bank in transition, 2nd from 400w, 3 and 4 from 700w, 5th from wagon, And then die to anything

Gg

That used to be my dutch bo, though i made a saloon with 400w ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[lemmings121]

I like my dutch bo:

1bank in transition, 2nd from 400w, 3 and 4 from 700w, 5th from wagon, And then die to anything

Gg

That used to be my dutch bo, though i made a saloon with 400w ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[spoiler=spoiler][/spoiler]

[_H2O]

Unless your going stable two house on the 400 you have to go 700 wood. Otherwise you don't military. Dutch age up super fast so if you do stable two house on 400 you can have something that feels like the French 13 vil age up 3 hussar card.

[tedere12]

i never seem to get 5 hus as a 1st batcch with 700w so if u intend to start hus go bank, else 700w

[pecelot]

I like my dutch bo:

1bank in transition, 2nd from 400w, 3 and 4 from 700w, 5th from wagon, And then die to anything

Gg

You mean annihilate everything now on EP?

[macacoalbino]

Unless your going stable two house on the 400 you have to go 700 wood. Otherwise you don't military. Dutch age up super fast so if you do stable two house on 400 you can have something that feels like the French 13 vil age up 3 hussar card.

Do you do 700w when opening with a barracks?

[_venox_]

If you rax you'd want some pikemen to defend against cav which is really awkward after bankwagon but not after 700w.

[Papist]

IIRC, @Jerom

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(our resident Dutch lamer) believes that while 700w is the better option, the bank wagon is the safer choice if you anticipate any real pressure.

[momuuu]

700w can be and if sent should be used to get 3 banks before any military building, and then go for a stable or rax once the 700w has been gathered. This demonstrates clearly how this 700w build is pretty slow. If your opponent rushes, bank wagon builds are much faster and thus much safer. It requires playing around with 700w and bank wagon builds to see in which cases going 700w is worth it. Against a civ like aztec or russia, I can tell you that 700w builds are too greedy, for example. Against portuguese however, or in the mirror, 700w is a great build. Honestly, I'd just go test it out, it's the best way to get to understand the civ. Do practise the 700w build a bit, the macro is actually quite tricky at first.

[Mitoe]

Both are viable options. Both with their own pros and cons.

700w - I guess this is the option I prefer most of the time? Although it's not necessarily any better. In general if you're shipping 700w as your first card in Colonial, it means you're going to be making that 2nd bank with your 400w from age up. However, contrary to (apparently) popular belief, you don't have to make a 3rd bank on 700w. I usually prefer to build a military building, a few houses, and a market, and grab upgrades like Hunting Dogs and Steel Traps. This makes it very easy to get out units within a reasonable time and still play relatively boomy. It's also easier to ship a military shipment 2nd if you need it, since you have 50-60 pop instead of 40, but you should avoid this. If you ship a military shipment as your 2nd card in Colonial as Dutch you better be getting some serious value from it or you've basically lost. You can, of course, still build a 3rd bank on 700w, but honestly it's probably just inferior to the market variation.

Most of the time you want to follow up with the bank wagon after 700w, but 600w is a viable alternative I guess. The one downside to the 700w build is that you usually end up with only 3 banks after your first 2 cards in Colonial, whereas with the bank wagon build it's actually possible to get 4 after 2 cards and still be relatively safe.

Bank Wagon - If you're going to be shipping the bank wagon first, you should be building a military building and houses on 400w. This will allow you to get out units sooner, and will be much safer vs civs like Aztec or Russia that usually like to build a forward base and all-in rush you. However, if there is no need to get units out immediately, I would recommend chopping some extra wood and dropping a market and grabbing a market upgrade (or two, depending on how badly you need units). This may delay your military units slightly, but not by much, and your economy will be much happier for it. This leaves you with roughly the same eco as the 700w build, but more flexibility with how early you get your units.

You are pretty much forced to send 700w as your next card if you started with bank wagon, as anything else will almost certainly leave you housed (you should be on ~40 pop). However, since you basically lose if you send anything else anyway, it's not that much of a downside, and if you managed to get a decent advantage with your first 5-8 (you're probably not getting out 10 huss with this variation) hussar, then you can even use the 700w for an extra 2 banks and just sit happy on your insane eco. You need to be careful with how you use the 700w however, or you risk housing yourself and potentially skipping vills with idle TC time or dying to some random timing push, or missing out on your market altogether.

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Both are viable options. Both with their own pros and cons.

700w - I guess this is the option I prefer most of the time? Although it's not necessarily any better. In general if you're shipping 700w as your first card in Colonial, it means you're going to be making that 2nd bank with your 400w from age up. However, contrary to (apparently) popular belief, you don't have to make a 3rd bank on 700w. I usually prefer to build a military building, a few houses, and a market, and grab upgrades like Hunting Dogs and Steel Traps. This makes it very easy to get out units within a reasonable time and still play relatively boomy. It's also easier to ship a military shipment 2nd if you need it, since you have 50-60 pop instead of 40, but you should avoid this. If you ship a military shipment as your 2nd card in Colonial as Dutch you better be getting some serious value from it or you've basically lost. You can, of course, still build a 3rd bank on 700w, but honestly it's probably just inferior to the market variation.

Most of the time you want to follow up with the bank wagon after 700w, but 600w is a viable alternative I guess. The one downside to the 700w build is that you usually end up with only 3 banks after your first 2 cards in Colonial, whereas with the bank wagon build it's actually possible to get 4 after 2 cards and still be relatively safe.

Bank Wagon - If you're going to be shipping the bank wagon first, you should be building a military building and houses on 400w. This will allow you to get out units sooner, and will be much safer vs civs like Aztec or Russia that usually like to build a forward base and all-in rush you. However, if there is no need to get units out immediately, I would recommend chopping some extra wood and dropping a market and grabbing a market upgrade (or two, depending on how badly you need units). This may delay your military units slightly, but not by much, and your economy will be much happier for it. This leaves you with roughly the same eco as the 700w build, but more flexibility with how early you get your units.

You are pretty much forced to send 700w as your next card if you started with bank wagon, as anything else will almost certainly leave you housed (you should be on ~40 pop). However, since you basically lose if you send anything else anyway, it's not that much of a downside, and if you managed to get a decent advantage with your first 5-8 (you're probably not getting out 10 huss with this variation) hussar, then you can even use the 700w for an extra 2 banks and just sit happy on your insane eco. You need to be careful with how you use the 700w however, or you risk housing yourself and potentially skipping vills with idle TC time or dying to some random timing push, or missing out on your market altogether.

Are you talking about RE Patch or your reasoning can be applied on EP too?

[pecelot]

I guess it applies to both, on EP it's just way smoother and you get possibly one additional shipment.

[fei123456]

you also need 350f to build a bank, which is not an easy case for dutch. so, if you send bank wagon first, you can train 5 hussar early for better raiding; for 700w, you can boom faster.