India Shikari
Dragoon
Posts: 252
ESO: rahuru

13 Aug 2019, 15:51

Are you guys sure you can get full batch of 5 ulhans out if you do all this. That is a lot of wood to be gathered. It is 550wood (200w tp + 100w market + 150 for HD, PM and extra 25 for ST afterwards+ for a house). I usually complete my ulhan batch of 5 from 4 at the last moment when it is about to pop out. I usually build extra house afterward I build stable though so my ulhan batch is faster but still. @Kaiserklein

PS I am talking about situation where you are playing vs very aggressive civs like iro or russia for ex where you are not comfortable to age late. I read ur reply later so added this part.
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Germany yemshi
Jaeger
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ESO: yemshi
Location: Germany

13 Aug 2019, 15:57

You either have a TP or market before you start aging.
India Shikari
Dragoon
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ESO: rahuru

13 Aug 2019, 16:02

yemshi wrote:You either have a TP or market before you start aging.

Yeah but as i said what about a food start with no good treasures, (or i just couldn't get good treasure cause i suck and I am facing a fast civ like Russia otto iro).
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Canada Mitoe
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13 Aug 2019, 16:14

You can still market or TP on food start. If you don’t get great treasures you might be slowed to an 18v age up but usually it’s still worth it.

If you truly feel you can’t get away with that for whatever reason (maybe vs Russia/Aztec), I would recommend chopping 200w in transition for a TP, plus an extra 50-150 wood. 50 if you don’t feel you can fit in the market, 150 if you feel you can fit in the market and hunting dogs. Upon age up use your 400w for a market if you don’t have it yet, an upgrade, a stable, and a house. Send 700w first for houses and more upgrades and likely a 2nd military building (or a 2nd TP if it turns out you can be greedy somehow) followed by 3 SW usually.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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13 Aug 2019, 16:14

You can get away with everything against Aztec though lol.
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Bran6new
No Flag DracoWolfgand
Skirmisher
Posts: 108

13 Aug 2019, 18:36

Well, then, since not all the matchups notes are complete, I thought I would give some thoughts/suggestions of my own :p.( Note: None of these are very "hard" suggestions for strategies or builds. One reason is because, by my own admission, I am actually quite bad at designing decks, and prefer to "borrow" suggestions from other players, sometimes with minor modifications to add a card I really like. Another is just to keep the options open. )

Iroquois:

Since Iroquois economy is much faster then the German economy, the main source of threat here is the Iroquois managing to age up earlier then you. During the Discovery Age, if you normally have problems plaiyng against Iroquois players, consider the hypothesis of aging up a couple villagers sooner then you normally do. Normally, Iroquois players start going into the offensive right in the Colonial Age, but there is the elusive Iroquois Fast Castle or even Fast Imperial.

At either case, your strategy should be just about the same: Raid with Uhlans/Crossbows occasionally through the Colonial, and particularly, try to abuse the German trait of getting free Uhlans per shipment, but remember your main focus should be to get at the Fortress age. A "pure" Fast Fortress is not usually a good idea against the Iroquois as they can out-do you on that, but it is about a fact that is on the Fortress Age onwards that you start to get a true edge. The good thing about fighting the Iroquois as the Germans is that the Iroquois dont like using cavalry and use less and less of it as the game goes on. This means one of the primary threats to the German Uhlan( Light cavalry ) is a rare sight in late game simply because Musket Riders... Kind of suck. Tomahawks will still be a presence on the late game, of course, but Uhlans + Skirmishers should be able to kill then faster then they can kill the Uhlans. The late game will be somewhat on the Germans favor( For once, as their late game against other European civilizations is usually nothing to brag about ), but the trick is actually getting there most of the time.

Japan.

Good news, for you, who loves plaiyng with Uhlans: Japanese light cavalry sucks. Bad news: Japanese heavy infantry is awesome.

Uhlan raiding is still pratical on the early game, but this is one of the situations where the German traits of getting free Uhlans per shipment proves to be almost as much of a curse as it is of actual help, because it means the Japanese will-Expect-Uhlans. They will prepare for the Uhlans. It is recommended to go for a Fast Fortress, as unlocking Skirmishers soon is recommended to improve your odds here, but even after you do, you should not get too overconfident about it either: A force of Uhlans + Skirmishers-Might-Be able to take down a group of Ashigaru+Naginatas, but not without severe lossess. To improve your odds, you should consider leaving some War Wagons between the Uhlans and the Skirmishers. Unfortunately, "How many" you kind of have to figure out on the spot and adjust as your oponent does. After all, for a example: If your opponent notices you are using too many Uhlans, he will switch to a more Samurai-focused strategy, as the Samurai is a deadly counter to the Uhlans: If you are using too many War Wagons, he will begin focusing on something revolving more around the lines of Ashigaru + Yumi or Samurai+ Yumi: If you are using too many Skirmishers, then he will just go with the previously mentioned Ashigaru+Naginata combo, expecting the Ashigaru to make up for the lower base attack of the Naginata against the Uhlans. On the overral, the main difficulty of that fight is that there is simply no strategy the Germans have that the Japanese dont have a good counter against, so you kind of have to adapt and not let yourself become too predictable.

Ottomans.

As I slowly got more experienced at plaiyng this game( I am still probably less experienced then most people here, though ), one thing became obvious to me, and that is that there is one thing that almost every Ottoman player is guaranteed to pull on the Colonial age: A shipment of Janissaries. Most European civilizations tend to struggle dealing with that trick, and while it usually doesnt "wins then the game", it tends to deal enough damage to buy the Ottomans enough time to pull their own weird Fast Castle strategy, and thus get to the age where their economy doesnt suck sooner. The Germans are no exception. So you should prepare for it, wall up, get a few Crossbowman shipments if you have the chance...

Uhlan raiding tactics can work in the Colonial age, after you deal with the opening wave of Janissaries, but it becomes increasingly less pratical to do over time, as the Ottoman economy, once properly set up, is famously resistent to raids. Free Settlers do that for you. In order to obtain any meaningfull victories, then, you will need artillery: Luckily, the Germans, like any European civilization, have great artillery. Personally, my favourite tactics tend to revolve around Falconets, and a couple of Culverins, guarded by Doppelsoldners.

Portuguese.

We all known that the Portuguese love their Fast Fortress strategy, so obviously, the main thing you should focus on doing is ruining it. You should get to the Colonial age before they do, and once you do, of course, as usual, abuse Uhlan raiding. If you get very lucky, it is possible you end the game before giving then the chance to get to the Fortress age. However, if they turtle up before giving you the chance, things will get more complicated.

The Portuguese are in no lack of options to deal with Uhlans, so on the Fortress Age onwards, while they should be a element of your army, they should not be the main element. Uhlans + Skirmishers against Portuguese Dragoons, particularly, is not as good of a idea as it sounds, as because of the several cards the Portuguese get to support their Dragoons, particularly, the Genitour card increasing their range, the Portuguese should be able to butcher your Uhlans before your Skirmishers get the chance to kill their Dragoons. In fact, Portuguese Dragoons are in general a huge menace for the Germans late game.

Bizarrelly, including a couple of Falconets on a otherwise mostly Uhlan/Skirmisher army actually helps a little on this situation, mostly because the Falconet range lets the Germans soften up the Dragoons a bit, and thus lets their Skirmishers kill then faster. In my personal experience, anyway. If any of you have any better suggestions, feel free to let me know :p. The main point I am getting is, the more you let the game draf, the more this advantage will go to the Portuguese, until eventually it becomes flat-out one-sided, so if you normally dont like plaiyng agressivelly, this is a great time to start.

Russia

On this one, the Germans probably have the edge if they know what they are doing. The Russians like to raid with cavalry as much as the Germans do: However, at least early on, the Germans have better options for anti-cavalry. So, while the Russians may have a fast economy, if they begin raiding you before you can mass a good number of Uhlans, dont panic: Just train a Doppelsoldner or two. Not-Too-Many, thought, lest the Russians decide to shift to Musketeers.

Later, however, the Russians options for anti-cavalry begin improving a bit, but luckily, most of the options they do have are very vulnerable to Skirmishers. If you do not let then get a large economical advantage, Uhlans + skirmishers should be able to handle most of what they have at their disposal.

Spain.

Early on, you will be forced to rely more on Crossbowman then on Uhlans, thanks to the Spanish love for raiding with meele units during the Colonial Age. Doppelsoldners can also be considered against Pikeman and Rodeleros, as they do a great job of slaiyng these.

Later, though, the Spanish become versatile and unpredictable enough that there isnt really any "specific" tactic that is guaranteed to work against then. Debatably one of their most fearsome tactics against standart German antics, though, are Unction-boosted Dragoons, as they are capaeble of slaughtering Uhlans, effortlessly kite Doppelsoldners, and usually tend to win out against War Wagons. Skirmishers are obviously-The-Main tactic against Dragoons, but Spanish like supporting then with some other unit... If it is the Hussar, obviously you should be supporting your Skirmishers with War Wagons( Doppelsoldners are a bit too easy to kill from far away )
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France Kaiserklein
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Location: Paris
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13 Aug 2019, 19:01

[Armag] diarouga wrote:You can get away with everything against Aztec though lol.

Aztec being one of the more aggressive civs, you obviously get away with less greed early on vs them than vs slower civs
Micro tricks

LoOk_tOm: I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

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Canada Mitoe
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13 Aug 2019, 20:27

DracoWolfgand wrote:. . . but there is the elusive Iroquois Fast Castle or even Fast Imperial.

:hmm:
No Flag DracoWolfgand
Skirmisher
Posts: 108

13 Aug 2019, 23:47

Mitoe wrote:
DracoWolfgand wrote:. . . but there is the elusive Iroquois Fast Castle or even Fast Imperial.

:hmm:


Not a tactic I personally use, of course. But I have seen some other players use on rare occasions. I do not fully know what is the logic behind it: I think some newer players just think that "Well, the Iroquois have such a good economy that they theoretically can go up the ages very fast, so why not try it?"
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Canada Mitoe
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14 Aug 2019, 02:36

DracoWolfgand wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
DracoWolfgand wrote:. . . but there is the elusive Iroquois Fast Castle or even Fast Imperial.

:hmm:


Not a tactic I personally use, of course. But I have seen some other players use on rare occasions. I do not fully know what is the logic behind it: I think some newer players just think that "Well, the Iroquois have such a good economy that they theoretically can go up the ages very fast, so why not try it?"

I was really just poking fun at the fact that you used AoE2 terms for age 3 and 4 haha. ^_^

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