german vs china

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China fei123456
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german vs china

Post by fei123456 »

china goes for a straight ff, and i have a uhlan semi ff.
and what age3 combo is better against fortress china? uhlan+skirm not so good. chinese cav and hero and consulate musks rape them.
maybe uhlan+dopple? or war wagon+skirm?
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german vs china

Post by DerMaxinator »

I would go for wagon/skirm and mix in some dopps or Uhland to scare off/block off China cav
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

100% uhlans+ skirms shipments might work if you don't let him gather ressources. Send br when he has too many cavs.
You can watch naga vs veni from the tourney, veni did well.
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german vs china

Post by _DB_ »

Germ vs China very close MU. The main point is, Artillery wins China. Bad that Germany don't have the 2 falc shipment, so you won't like to use 1 falc too. I've saw many people making falcs + war wagons + ulhans against China using the 3 settler wagon semi FF.

It really works. Chop for a foundry during transition of aging to age 3. Age with skirm politician. Your first card can either be 1000 wood or 3 war wagons + 3 ulhans. Tbh, 1k wood very efficient, you'll need that for houses or possibly an extra TC. If you're able to make 3 falcs, then it's an auto win. Beware of the 7 hand mortars that china gets. It's a very weak culverin which you must kill out first. Look for cav to be killed by war wagons. Also, if you can, consider upgrading veteran ulhan , then do it if you've got your falcs killed.
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german vs china

Post by fei123456 »

diarouga wrote:100% uhlans+ skirms shipments might work if you don''t let him gather ressources. Send br when he has too many cavs.
You can watch naga vs veni from the tourney, veni did well.


but what will happen if its a big map such as araucania? shipments take a long time to arrive.
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german vs china

Post by fei123456 »

diarouga wrote:100% uhlans+ skirms shipments might work if you don''t let him gather ressources. Send br when he has too many cavs.
You can watch naga vs veni from the tourney, veni did well.


i played with my friend yesterday on araucania. i train mass uhlan and send skirms, but he send 8 steppe rider 8 keshik, then 10 keshik, mixing with some other shit. AND I LOSE! wtf
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Post by Jaeger »

Vs standard china ff do straight ff, TP age 1 no matter what even if you age 18v, age with 500f and ship 3 SW 700wood 1k wood, or just age with 400w and ship 700w then units. Either way no need to make any military age 2 or try to raid, just take treasures with uhlans. Mass mostly skirm+uhlan with like 10 vet dopps mixed in. You should be able to outkskirm him which is pretty big.
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german vs china

Post by princeofkabul »

ovi12 wrote:Vs standard china ff do straight ff, TP age 1 no matter what even if you age 18v, age with 500f and ship 3 SW 700wood 1k wood, or just age with 400w and ship 700w then units. Either way no need to make any military age 2 or try to raid, just take treasures with uhlans. Mass mostly skirm+uhlan with like 10 vet dopps mixed in. You should be able to outkskirm him which is pretty big.

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Post by Mitoe »

just put uhlans on top of his tc lol, not much china can do..
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Post by iNcog »

I think that if you skip units you also skip the free pressure you get over china's base for 8 minutes.
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Post by jsimons1289 »

age 2 pressure is fine IMO. Doppel/cav and take down a village / pressure, then even if he get's age 3 (v. likely) he can't use his shipments.

If you want an age 3 war I wouldn't say it's to German's advantage early. The China mass right click German army die problem is very real. Takes some good micro to defend it.

I'm not sure why you'd age with 500f to age 2 though?

'TP age 1 no matter what even if you age 18v,' this isn't always true imo. It depends on the map and your starting crates. If you're on a short map and you want to play age 3, if you start 100w you're going to be miles behind China. Remember most China straight FF's will behind you in terms of eco anyway. I'd probably play age 2 with a TP in transition if you start 100w on a short map.
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Post by DerMaxinator »

admin wrote:just put uhlans on top of his tc lol, not much china can do..
+ 1
If you play really risky just pike rush him with some bows, siege villages and contain his vills.
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Post by Jaeger »

princeofkabul wrote:
ovi12 wrote:Vs standard china ff do straight ff, TP age 1 no matter what even if you age 18v, age with 500f and ship 3 SW 700wood 1k wood, or just age with 400w and ship 700w then units. Either way no need to make any military age 2 or try to raid, just take treasures with uhlans. Mass mostly skirm+uhlan with like 10 vet dopps mixed in. You should be able to outkskirm him which is pretty big.
no, just no.
lol?
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Post by Papist »

Just mass uhlan all game, send 8 skirm, and go in. Follow up with additional skirm to beat 11 changdao. After the changdao are dead, he will have no answer to your pressure - vet uhlan will beat chinese cav and you can always send ww as well.
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Post by jsimons1289 »

ovi12 wrote:
princeofkabul wrote:no, just no.
lol?
why would you age with 500 f? Then why would your card order be 700w followed by 1000w? Why would you never age 2? And why would you age 1 TP no matter what? All of this is questionable. And you havent backed it up as to why any of these are better than a standard build. Which definitely isnt 500f age up - especially if youre collecting wood to go age 1 TP no matter what. And its also definitely not 1000w vs China as your first age 3 card. With no age 2 units, collecting wood for TP with a 100w start, collecting enough gold as youre using 700w not 700g, youre going to be up late and with no units vs a China who is unpressured up to age 3 and has already massed. I know mm are op and all that but...
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Post by Jaeger »

jsimons1289 wrote:
ovi12 wrote:lol?
why would you age with 500 f? Then why would your card order be 700w followed by 1000w? Why would you never age 2? And why would you age 1 TP no matter what? All of this is questionable. And you havent backed it up as to why any of these are better than a standard build. Which definitely isnt 500f age up - especially if youre collecting wood to go age 1 TP no matter what. And its also definitely not 1000w vs China as your first age 3 card. With no age 2 units, collecting wood for TP with a 100w start, collecting enough gold as youre using 700w not 700g, youre going to be up late and with no units vs a China who is unpressured up to age 3 and has already massed. I know mm are op and all that but...
Most of these things are pretty obvious. First of all, if you watch H2o play china you will see that making 5 uhlans and trying to raid with the is useless vs good player. You can afford to do TP in age 1 even with late age because china will ff and even if they dont you can easily hold their rush. If you age with 500f and ship 3 SW you will be up (with fast age and a shipment ready) at like 6:40, which is earlier than Chin anyway. 700w+1k wood because germany needs way more than 1700 wood. You need 10 houses for 120 pop and possibly more later on, thats 1k wood right there. Then you need like 550 wood for market HD+placer mines+steel traps+almagation, 400w for rax and stable, 200w for vet uhlan, 200w if youre gonna upgrade dopps (which is not neccesary), 200w for second TP.

Its either this huge mass at like 12-13 minutes or early pressure, I havent played much vs China lately so idk early pressure maybe is better but I dont see why this is bad.
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Post by jsimons1289 »

Trying to raid with 5 uhlans isn't going to kill his TC and villages, no. But why can't you make doppel and uhlan? Why not bow pike? I'd be slightly nervous ALWAYS letting China age. If you want to mass in 13 mins and not pressure, I'll just go age IV as China. Or you let them collect enough gold for Manchu, which if you're massing uhl, probably isn't a good thing.

I'm not sure why you'd pick 500f over 400w. Your market upgrades will be late, and you're pretty much all in on the FF, you can't adapt at all as you have no military buildings (or option to build military buildings). If you want an age 3 war and you've scouted his straight FF, use the 400 wood for market &' extra TP earlier.

And yes, at some point in the game you'll need that much wood. But the idea is to use your resources effectively, at the time you need it. German's advantage in fortress is their 4 big age 3 cards. You nullify that advantage of getting up early if you then forego those shipments for over stocking wood. Why be up at 6:40 if you plan to wait around for 6 minutes before engaging? Age at 7:30 with a better eco that will pay dividends over that same period.

I'm not saying certain aspects of your strat can't ever work, I'm just not sure they all fit together in one strat.
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Post by fei123456 »

admin wrote:just put uhlans on top of his tc lol, not much china can do..


you may find it difficult on some big maps such as araucania
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Post by edeholland »

Chopping bit of wood + 400 wood + 700 wood is enough to send some shipments in age 3 without sending 1000 wood.
Also, you can always idle vills and delay ageup with uhlan in age 2.

Aging with 500 food and sending 1000 wood is hurting yourself for no reason imo
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Post by Jaeger »

edeholland wrote:Chopping bit of wood + 400 wood + 700 wood is enough to send some shipments in age 3 without sending 1000 wood.
Also, you can always idle vills and delay ageup with uhlan in age 2.

Aging with 500 food and sending 1000 wood is hurting yourself for no reason imo
500f+1000w>'700w+400w.

Also, I would try to send 700w 1000w if I can (which you should be able to)
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Post by edeholland »

You don't want to send 1000w so early. You are early in fortress and thus you send unit shipments to fight...What is the point of spending 2200 resources by aging up, if you are only going to send resources again?
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Post by Papist »

method wrote:
papist wrote:Just mass uhlan all game, send 8 skirm, and go in. Follow up with additional skirm to beat 11 changdao. After the changdao are dead, he will have no answer to your pressure - vet uhlan will beat chinese cav and you can always send ww as well.

Okay great, what do we do when the chinese player is above pr 5?
If you have skirms, China has no answer to uhlan - changdao arent the best to begin with and they die almost instantly to skirms. They can get swarmed easily early in age 3.
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german vs china

Post by fei123456 »

papist wrote:Just mass uhlan all game, send 8 skirm, and go in. Follow up with additional skirm to beat 11 changdao. After the changdao are dead, he will have no answer to your pressure - vet uhlan will beat chinese cav and you can always send ww as well.


mass keshik kills uhlans easily. and manchu.

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