Page 4 of 4

Re: Behavioral Economics and AoE3

Posted: 25 Mar 2020, 19:33
by zoom
iNcog wrote:I have a good point to make but I am on my phone and cba to type it all out. If I get home and reread this post I will elaborate on why balance is totally possible even with 14 civs
That is entirely dependent on your definition of balance. You could achieve significantly better inter-civilization balance, while continuing to improve the viability of basic features of the game, in practice – as I think we will see in the coming months. You couldn't achieve perfect balance, even in theory.

Re: Behavioral Economics and AoE3

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 06:29
by deleted_user
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
deleted_user wrote: In games like Chess and Go, there are no changes. So the meta will inevitably settle, as players continue to slowly improve the meta. Both are very popular games, but we can safely say the meta is fairly stale in Chess whereas innovations in Go are relatively frequent and especially relatively impactful. This is because Go is a more complex game.
I kind of think neither you nor SirCallen follow high level play closely. I would in fact say that the meta has been shifting a lot in the last twenty years. Computers have completely changed the way chess is played at the top level, with many opening that were considered bad being rehabilitated and many moves that would have been considered "too ugly" twenty years ago being played routinely (particularly with pawn play). The reason why top level chess is less interesting to watch than twenty or fifty years ago is that it has become so complex than us mere mortal can not understand anything. And with deep learning chess programs it is even better, players are discovering new way to play old position routinely now.
This is true, and I don't follow high level chess play closely, but I follow it more closely than then, two years ago.

Neural networks are revolutionary and there are so many h4 h5s now. What's next? I don't know anything, but revolutions never stay as revolutions. The game is still within its same bounds and there is an asymptote. However the game is capable of so many different permutations that interesting play will always be an option. I prefer when scoring is altered to favor decisive results. 2manydraws.

Re: Behavioral Economics and AoE3

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 11:26
by iNcog
-- deleted post --

Re: Behavioral Economics and AoE3

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 11:31
by Goodspeed
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:... and repeat
Yes.
I think you didn't get my point. My point is that you need to make small changes from time to time to make sure that balance is good, but making 50 changes isn't necessary.
If your changes aren't big enough, the meta will re-settle almost immediately after you make them. If a meta is settled but Brits are OP, and you make a change to make Brits not OP, people will just immediately switch to the civ that was deemed second-best.

I agree that you don't need to make 50 changes, but a minimalist approach won't get you far. The reason I think we should make 50 changes is that the game is just not as good as it could be. A lot of civs are still one-dimensional, and we aren't seeing a lot of variety in unit compositions.

Re: Behavioral Economics and AoE3

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 11:37
by iNcog
-- deleted post --

Re: Behavioral Economics and AoE3

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 11:40
by RefluxSemantic
The meta has been relatively stale for 10 years or so in my opinion. But thats just the nature of old games. I believe aoe2's meta is stale too, but that game looks fun regardless.

If you want constant changes to have fun, I think you should look to exoand your repetoire of games.

Re: Behavioral Economics and AoE3

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 11:42
by iNcog
-- deleted post --

Re: Behavioral Economics and AoE3

Posted: 26 Mar 2020, 11:49
by Goodspeed
RefluxSemantic wrote:The meta has been relatively stale for 10 years or so in my opinion. But thats just the nature of old games. I believe aoe2's meta is stale too, but that game looks fun regardless.

If you want constant changes to have fun, I think you should look to exoand your repetoire of games.
Keeping the meta from becoming too stale isn't only to keep the game fun. Initially it was brought up as a way to increase the impact of creativity as opposed to mechanics.