Few suggestions

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Poland Nemo
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Few suggestions

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Post by Nemo »

Hello everyone, I've been following ESO for quite some time now, but recent threads made me write this post to share some of my thoughts that may be beneficial to the state of the game :). If this is the wrong place for this discussion, please move it somewhere it belongs.

I've been dabbling in RTS since i was a kid, then I kinda stopped playing games at all as I was making a living off of poker for few years. Some time ago moved up to another things, consequently freeing up some of my time and decided to put some of this time into playing strategies - this time more 'seriously' - trying to get better etc. Two main games for me right now are Warcraft 3 an AoE3 - games I loved as a kid, games i still love and consider to have deeply skill-intensive strategy and mechanics on top of great gameplay and very well-aging graphics.

Unfortunately, when it comes to AoE3, i came across some fundamental problems that i feel are crucial to community and competitive scene growth. I will try to show my point of view as a person who was a professional player (not in RTS though), watched thousands of hours of different streams, tournaments etc. from various games, but most importantly as someone who loves the game and really want to see it grow.

First thing i want to address is difficulties with getting into the game. Let's face it - the game is reeeaally old, which is never good for pulling new players. What it's got to it is undeniably the franchise - name Age of Empires still rings some bells and means something for a lot of people. The problem is, AoE3 is actually harder and less rewarding to get into than its older brothers. What i get by buying the original game is poor and unbalanced game with a lot of bugs and UI problems. It took me weeks, if not months to find you you guys - I had to go for a long time not knowing what's the difference between 'RE' or 'EP', which version i can play online with who and how to get good random maps to play. It would be really cool to have explained with details - in one place, as exposed as possible - what ESOC is, what it aims to do to, why is it better to play EP than original or vanilla, and why the balance is so important, so the new players have everything on a silver platter and are under impression that it's big and well-organised community worth of joining. In the same place should be some directions to find low-level players to play and practice with.

Second thing, sort of following the first, is the learning curve. In game like WC3, i can find couple of streams right off the bat, sign up to various discord servers and watch up-to-date strategy videos. In AoE3, I had to browse youtube and google for a long time to find info on basic things and mechanics like micro, treasure collecting, herding, or villager management - and they were 5 years old, buried deep (and often named vaguely) on some youtube playlist!!! (seriously though - thanks Interjection, you are doing hell of a job and I wouldn't be here if not for you).
It is really hard to understand for me why aren't these things gathered, ordered and pinned right at the top of ESOC homepage with appropriate description and links to adequate videos.

The last thing was building up inside me for some time now, but it was just recently that it occurred to me to write about it - following the discussion about a player who, if I understand correctly, disliked his opponent's strategy (exploiting his obvious tendencies) to the point that he decided it would be appropriate to drop him from the game (WTF?). The point is - I've been a part of a good amount of different groups and communities, but rarely i see such toxic and childish ones. Since when i dived in and started watching AoE3 a lot and reading the forum, I constantly see examples of toxic behaviour - be it someone blatantly cheating and flaming others on twitch (luckily already banned from what I understand) or players (sometimes very good judging by their ladder and tournament results) being rude and vulgar to each other on twitch and forum, flaming childishly under tournament and strategy sections. Like for real, there's maybe few of the very top players that I haven't seen being rude or abrasive. And for what?! Game that pays like 200$ for 1st place in the hardest, most competitive tornaments once every few months?

Wouldn't it be worth to try and find someone who (maybe for some perks or something) would be willing to act as an ESOC's "face" on social medias and streaming platforms? Someone who could stream regularly, put up videos, be polite, mature and build a solid audience for the sake of himself and whole AoE3 community? I know it's always hard, resources are limited and so on, but I know that people like that did a lot for other games, their recognizability and fanbase.

That's it guys, sorry for the wall of text, and please don't take this post as a whining or an attempt to insult anybody, but as a sincere and constructive voice of concern :)
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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Re: Few suggestions

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Post by EAGLEMUT »

Welcome, and thanks for the feedback! I'll try to address these points:
First thing i want to address is difficulties with getting into the game. Let's face it - the game is reeeaally old, which is never good for pulling new players. What it's got to it is undeniably the franchise - name Age of Empires still rings some bells and means something for a lot of people. The problem is, AoE3 is actually harder and less rewarding to get into than its older brothers. What i get by buying the original game is poor and unbalanced game with a lot of bugs and UI problems. It took me weeks, if not months to find you you guys - I had to go for a long time not knowing what's the difference between 'RE' or 'EP', which version i can play online with who and how to get good random maps to play.

Unfortunately, there's only so much we can do as a community project. The game, as currently shipped, makes it hard to even launch the full official version properly; it's very sad really. Our best hope at solving this might be the Definitive Edition remaster.
It would be really cool to have explained with details - in one place, as exposed as possible - what ESOC is, what it aims to do to, why is it better to play EP than original or vanilla, and why the balance is so important, so the new players have everything on a silver platter and are under impression that it's big and well-organised community worth of joining.

I think the best we currently got is the EP landing page, which attempts to concisely explain what EP offers and how it works, and it is very exposed as it's the same page used to download EP. About ESOC itself we also got a page, though that one isn't much exposed - it's just in the footer. There is certainly a great lack of easily-accessible information on all the various features EP has; a new player has no chance of learning about them unless they read previous release newsposts or they just find out in game. This pains me greatly, but it takes quite a lot of work to document and present all these things and ultimately we've just lacked the resources to do that, so far.
In the same place should be some directions to find low-level players to play and practice with.

The sad reality is you won't find them anywhere; they all play on RE.
In AoE3, I had to browse youtube and google for a long time to find info on basic things and mechanics like micro, treasure collecting, herding, or villager management - and they were 5 years old, buried deep (and often named vaguely) on some youtube playlist!!! (seriously though - thanks Interjection, you are doing hell of a job and I wouldn't be here if not for you). It is really hard to understand for me why aren't these things gathered, ordered and pinned right at the top of ESOC homepage with appropriate description and links to adequate videos.

These actually have been gathered together and we have a great place to present them; the Strategy Wall. Though not exactly pinned at the top of ESOC homepage, it is linked from various places. Perhaps this should be on the sidebar at all times.
Wouldn't it be worth to try and find someone who (maybe for some perks or something) would be willing to act as an ESOC's "face" on social medias and streaming platforms? Someone who could stream regularly, put up videos, be polite, mature and build a solid audience for the sake of himself and whole AoE3 community? I know it's always hard, resources are limited and so on, but I know that people like that did a lot for other games, their recognizability and fanbase.

Well, ESOC already has its channels on social medias / streaming platforms (linked at the top of site), so that's where you can see ESOC's "face". Outside of that, I'd name Interjection who maintains multiple youtube channels, currently runs the Sunday Smackdown, and is even a part of the Escape studio team, where he was enabled to introduce AoE3 to a wider audience, perhaps dispelling some people's reservations about the game.
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Germany richard
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Re: Few suggestions

Post by richard »

Nemo wrote:...That's it guys, sorry for the wall of text, and please don't take this post as a whining or an attempt to insult anybody, but as a sincere and constructive voice of concern :)


This is a game about War man, dont forget that. It s not about people being nice to each other and haveing a beautiful world and good circumstances for everyone. It is about War.
No Flag deleted_user
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Re: Few suggestions

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Post by deleted_user »

Why does ESO-Community need one face?

We have many faces, because we are community.
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No Flag fightinfrenchman
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Re: Few suggestions

Post by fightinfrenchman »

deleted_user wrote:Why does ESO-Community need one face?

We have many faces, because we are community.


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No Flag tedere12
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Re: Few suggestions

Post by tedere12 »

richard wrote:
Nemo wrote:...That's it guys, sorry for the wall of text, and please don't take this post as a whining or an attempt to insult anybody, but as a sincere and constructive voice of concern :)


This is a game about War man, dont forget that. It s not about people being nice to each other and haveing a beautiful world and good circumstances for everyone. It is about War.

:shock: :ohmy: :unsure: :lol:
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Germany richard
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Re: Few suggestions

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Post by richard »

tedere12 wrote:
richard wrote:
Nemo wrote:...That's it guys, sorry for the wall of text, and please don't take this post as a whining or an attempt to insult anybody, but as a sincere and constructive voice of concern :)


This is a game about War man, dont forget that. It s not about people being nice to each other and haveing a beautiful world and good circumstances for everyone. It is about War.

:shock: :ohmy: :unsure: :lol:

War is hard to accept. It is hard, but it is like that. Nothing to laugh at.
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Canada Mitoe
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Re: Few suggestions

Post by Mitoe »

Since when i dived in and started watching AoE3 a lot and reading the forum, I constantly see examples of toxic behaviour - be it someone blatantly cheating and flaming others on twitch (luckily already banned from what I understand) or players (sometimes very good judging by their ladder and tournament results) being rude and vulgar to each other on twitch and forum, flaming childishly under tournament and strategy sections. Like for real, there's maybe few of the very top players that I haven't seen being rude or abrasive. And for what?! Game that pays like 200$ for 1st place in the hardest, most competitive tornaments once every few months?

I only wish I knew how it ended up like this, and how to reverse it.
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No Flag fightinfrenchman
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Re: Few suggestions

Post by fightinfrenchman »

@Mitoe If you made me a mod this would be much less of an issue
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Poland Nemo
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Re: Few suggestions

Post by Nemo »

deleted_user wrote:Why does ESO-Community need one face?

We have many faces, because we are community.


So maybe the solution is to make use of that - set up one channel where team of players put up content 'in rotation' - for example each day different civ with a player who is considered really good at it or something like this - it would be easier to keep it rolling, wouldn't consume one person's whole life and wouldn't feel stale or boring after short time. I mean, i just feel like the whole ESO project is fantastic initiative, backed by many excellent players who maybe would be willing to contribute - after all, the better the player, the more he gains from fanbase getting bigger, tournaments paying more money and so on. I simply would love to see the full potential of the brand unleashed i guess :D

EDIT: At some point, I saw Interjection trying to do something like this - regular coachings with different players like H2O, different civ showmatches with strategical analysis - and I felt like these are the best materials I've found on the whole Internet about this game, period. Unfortunately these things get outdated, too.

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