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Nauru Dolan
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Re: bullying

Post by Dolan »

There's a clear difference between bullying that is explicitly targeted at someone to harm them (like a group of kids surrounding one kid in the schoolyard and harassing him both verbally and physically) and this sort of online taunting, that some people find offensive (while others don't).
Just think of how much flaming and name-calling you've seen in AOE3, would you say that that's bullying?
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: bullying

Post by Goodspeed »

Just think of how much flaming and name-calling you've seen in AOE3, would you say that that's bullying?
If it's always targeted at the same player(s) then yes, of course.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: bullying

Post by Dolan »

gibson wrote:You’re completely missing the point. The sex of the poster isn’t relevant. Just like we don’t bring up that men have a higher tendency of being thick skulled every time you make a post, because it’s not relevant. Or if we’re following your logic we’ll just dismiss every post you make because men have a higher tendency of being idiots online than women, just like you want to dismiss ops point because of her sex regardless of the validity of the post.

Of course sex is always relevant. You're just making yourself look ignorant by ignoring it. Since there are clear emotional and cognitive differences between men and women, if you ignore that, you're simply an ignorant. And no matter how much equalitarian brainwashing you've been exposed to in your culture, it's not going to make those differences go away, because they're based in biology.

Nobody is dismissing a post made by someone because they're female. We're just explaining that there is a reason why females tend to find online jabs more offensive than men, on average. And that it's unlikely that Garja sees the "cult of Garja" and all the memes in the same way as iwillspankyou or another female. Maybe he's annoyed by them sometimes and to some extent, maybe he also finds that he gets a lot of attention that is rewarding, I've no idea. The best would be for him to maybe say something about this and make it clear where he stands.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: bullying

Post by Dolan »

Goodspeed wrote:
Just think of how much flaming and name-calling you've seen in AOE3, would you say that that's bullying?
If it's always targeted at the same player(s) then yes, of course.

Well then Kickass_OP is another victim of online bullying. Same for piroshiki. What's all the memeing about piro being the greatest Spain FF player of all times? And why are players saying his micro su.. is not that great. That's bullying, right?
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: bullying

Post by Goodspeed »

It's impressive in a way that when a woman posts a thread on ESOC, certain posters always find a way to make it about her sex. It's less impressive, more obnoxious, that they actually go out of their way to justify it. You need only consider whether this sort of shit would fly in a professional environment or any social environment where males aren't overwhelmingly overrepresented to realize how obviously sexist it is.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: bullying

Post by Goodspeed »

Dolan wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Just think of how much flaming and name-calling you've seen in AOE3, would you say that that's bullying?
If it's always targeted at the same player(s) then yes, of course.

Well then Kickass_OP is another victim of online bullying. Same for piroshiki. What's all the memeing about piro being the greatest Spain FF player of all times? And why are players saying his micro su.. is not that great. That's bullying, right?
I don't know of all the history there but sure, that seems likely. There's no shortage of bullies in this community. We're like a high school, really.
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Re: bullying

Post by deleted_user0 »

Dolan wrote:
gibson wrote:You’re completely missing the point. The sex of the poster isn’t relevant. Just like we don’t bring up that men have a higher tendency of being thick skulled every time you make a post, because it’s not relevant. Or if we’re following your logic we’ll just dismiss every post you make because men have a higher tendency of being idiots online than women, just like you want to dismiss ops point because of her sex regardless of the validity of the post.

Of course sex is always relevant. You're just making yourself look ignorant by ignoring it. Since there are clear emotional and cognitive differences between men and women, if you ignore that, you're simply an ignorant. And no matter how much equalitarian brainwashing you've been exposed to in your culture, it's not going to make those differences go away, because they're based in biology.

Nobody is dismissing a post made by someone because they're female. We're just explaining that there is a reason why females tend to find online jabs more offensive than men, on average. And that it's unlikely that Garja sees the "cult of Garja" and all the memes in the same way as iwillspankyou or another female. Maybe he's annoyed by them sometimes and to some extent, maybe he also finds that he gets a lot of attention that is rewarding, I've no idea. The best would be for him to maybe say something about this and make it clear where he stands.


Lots of research says the differences are negligent to irrelevant. You're ignorent for ignoring it.

In any case, whatever is statistically true for the majority of a group isn't necessarily true for any particulae individual. And so it's irrelevant to know the sex of said individual in the majority of contexts. Unless you mean to conclude things about an individual based upon statistics and stereotype without knowing anything about said individual, which when it comes to sex, is called sexism.
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Norway spanky4ever
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

edeholland wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
edeholland wrote:From what I've seen and heard, Garja does not feel bullied. Garja is in on the joke.

I guess you have a hard time reading ppls faces or body language :?: Or putting yourself in another person place, its called empathy :idea:
Have you spoken to him? Or are you making it up? I find it a bit excessive to imply I lack empathy.

I have not spoken to him, NO. But victims of a mob, seldom complain. They just take it :idea:
It is us, the spectators that have to grow a couple of empathy ones, and say "enough is enough" :idea:

Btw, sorry for not being "online" for the last 5 days, I see there is a lot of comments and I will read them now.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: bullying

Post by Dolan »

umeu wrote:Lots of research says the differences are negligent to irrelevant. You're ignorent for ignoring it.

In any case, whatever is statistically true for the majority of a group isn't necessarily true for any particulae individual. And so it's irrelevant to know the sex of said individual in the majority of contexts. Unless you mean to conclude things about an individual based upon statistics and stereotype without knowing anything about said individual, which when it comes to sex, is called sexism.
What kind of research on what kind of differences?

Sex is always relevant, just like someone's cultural background is always relevant. Why would you want to make something that is part of someone's core identity irrelevant? I thought leftwing people were very excited about making sure the world stays diverse, why would you want to erase a key part of what makes someone identifiable?
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

Sargsyan wrote:@spanky4ever quite ironic from your side considering how you always bullied the shit out of jerom, calling him fackfase jermon and stuff

That was a response my friend, to his hostility, whenever I made a post. Not very "grow up" response, but still a response.
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Re: bullying

Post by deleted_user0 »

Nah, we shouldnt. Imo the best way wouldve been to send garja a message and tell him that if he wants your support you'll be there for him.
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

just one comment, before I read through the whole thread, I noticed on Sunday, that the banhammer was used, whenever there was a hostile remark in the chat, like "Garja is shit". Thank you @BrookG :love:
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Re: bullying

Post by deleted_user0 »

Dolan wrote:
umeu wrote:Lots of research says the differences are negligent to irrelevant. You're ignorent for ignoring it.

In any case, whatever is statistically true for the majority of a group isn't necessarily true for any particulae individual. And so it's irrelevant to know the sex of said individual in the majority of contexts. Unless you mean to conclude things about an individual based upon statistics and stereotype without knowing anything about said individual, which when it comes to sex, is called sexism.
What kind of research on what kind of differences?

Sex is always relevant, just like someone's cultural background is always relevant. Why would you want to make something that is part of someone's core identity irrelevant? I thought leftwing people were very excited about making sure the world stays diverse, why would you want to erase a key part of what makes someone identifiable?


Why do you keep bringing up leftwing and rightwing? You should get out of your box.

I'm not making anything irrelevant, just that certain things aren't always relevant in every context, or always relevant to everyone. You're literally making shit up when you're talking about erasing differences or identity.

If it is so all defining for identity, then explain how people with the same sex and same culture, heck sometimes theyre even siblings or twins (so you can't just write it off on genes) can have wildly differing personalities and identities. Also explain how people from very different cultures can be good or even best friends?
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Tuvalu gibson
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Re: bullying

Post by gibson »

Dolan wrote:
gibson wrote:You’re completely missing the point. The sex of the poster isn’t relevant. Just like we don’t bring up that men have a higher tendency of being thick skulled every time you make a post, because it’s not relevant. Or if we’re following your logic we’ll just dismiss every post you make because men have a higher tendency of being idiots online than women, just like you want to dismiss ops point because of her sex regardless of the validity of the post.

Of course sex is always relevant. You're just making yourself look ignorant by ignoring it. Since there are clear emotional and cognitive differences between men and women, if you ignore that, you're simply an ignorant. And no matter how much equalitarian brainwashing you've been exposed to in your culture, it's not going to make those differences go away, because they're based in biology.

Nobody is dismissing a post made by someone because they're female. We're just explaining that there is a reason why females tend to find online jabs more offensive than men, on average. And that it's unlikely that Garja sees the "cult of Garja" and all the memes in the same way as iwillspankyou or another female. Maybe he's annoyed by them sometimes and to some extent, maybe he also finds that he gets a lot of attention that is rewarding, I've no idea. The best would be for him to maybe say something about this and make it clear where he stands.
Whats ignorant is taking something that tends to be true and applying it universally. The whole point of why this discussion got started is because pecelot dismissed iwillspankyou's point purely because she was a woman. The fact that she is a woman at this point is irrelevant. If there is a logical basis for her point being dismissed, thats fine, dismiss it. However, her merely being a woman is not a logical argument for dismissing her point, so in this case her sex is irrelevant. Unless you think that the fact that she is a woman is good enough logical basis to dismiss her point. So answer this yes or no question. Is the fact that she is a woman a strong logical basis to dismiss her point. Who am I kidding though, you won't just answer yes or not, youll post some word salad dancing around the point because you know that logically her sex isnt logical basis to dismiss her point, but if you admit that in your eyes your letting leftism win(which someone who bring every topic around to left vs right somehow), I mean how could a woman possibly be right about something that isn't in the bed or kitchen?!?!?!?!
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Greece BrookG
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Re: bullying

Post by BrookG »

iwillspankyou wrote:just one comment, before I read through the whole thread, I noticed on Sunday, that the banhammer was used, whenever there was a hostile remark in the chat, like "Garja is shit". Thank you @BrookG :love:

ofc Garja is great, he deserves more and he is truly modest as a human
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Re: bullying

Post by Riotcoke »

Goodspeed wrote:
Dolan wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Well then Kickass_OP is another victim of online bullying. Same for piroshiki. What's all the memeing about piro being the greatest Spain FF player of all times? And why are players saying his micro su.. is not that great. That's bullying, right?
I don't know of all the history there but sure, that seems likely. There's no shortage of bullies in this community. We're like a high school, really.

I dunno about in the netherlands, but in the UK jabing at someone in a jovial way, which is what you seem to point out, isn't bullying it's simply just banter, which is fine. Bullying is more of a repetitive jab at someone that is meant to be negative E.g Instead of people genuinely liking garja and calling him as a god, they would go out of their way to be malicious with the meme. Which to my knowledge and from my experience at the LAN in particular never happened.
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

who are you, the bully, or the bystanders
https://youtu.be/OSsPfbup0ac
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

edeholland wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
edeholland wrote:From what I've seen and heard, Garja does not feel bullied. Garja is in on the joke.

I guess you have a hard time reading ppls faces or body language :?: Or putting yourself in another person place, its called empathy: idea:
Have you spoken to him? Or are you making it up? I find it a bit excessive to imply I lack empathy.

I'm not implying anything about you ede, you are certainly one of the really nice guys, in this thread, and everywhere. On the other side, you should not endure so much, that you would not endure yourself. ez
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

that goes for everyone here :idea: including myself
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

THX to @umeo for trying to keep the chat on target im my absence
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: bullying

Post by Goodspeed »

Riotcoke wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Show hidden quotes
I don't know of all the history there but sure, that seems likely. There's no shortage of bullies in this community. We're like a high school, really.

I dunno about in the netherlands, but in the UK jabing at someone in a jovial way, which is what you seem to point out, isn't bullying it's simply just banter, which is fine. Bullying is more of a repetitive jab at someone that is meant to be negative E.g Instead of people genuinely liking garja and calling him as a god, they would go out of their way to be malicious with the meme. Which to my knowledge and from my experience at the LAN in particular never happened.
Nothing wrong with the occasional jab. That's not what this is in my XP.
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

iwillspankyou wrote:I have made a thread before, of the bullying that is ongoing in this community. It was about how everyone seems to think it's OK to put Garja down, in every way, in every chat, and in every unrelated way, possible :!:
I watched the steam just now, and it's perfect in every way, the audience was bullies, the chat also, and even the hosters.
It is not OK :hmm:
I mean, I might be older than most of you boys n girls, but I guess most of you should know what a bully looks like, and what a bullying crowd looks like as well.
I am so glad that Garja took the trip from Italy, to meet you all. But then there is shouting from the audience, and some stupid dude making gestures as if he was praying to Allah, Yeah I know, some of YOU might be laughing now, But being a target of all this, while trying to play a game :idea: you might put yourself in somebody else's shoes, for a change.
I have had it, up to my neck with this kind of shit, and I feel pretty much done

that was all, and maybe some of you trolls could take it down a notch. or maybe some of the casters/mods, could remind you that you are out of line, much more often. Thats all folks
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Re: bullying

Post by Riotcoke »

Goodspeed wrote:
Riotcoke wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I dunno about in the netherlands, but in the UK jabing at someone in a jovial way, which is what you seem to point out, isn't bullying it's simply just banter, which is fine. Bullying is more of a repetitive jab at someone that is meant to be negative E.g Instead of people genuinely liking garja and calling him as a god, they would go out of their way to be malicious with the meme. Which to my knowledge and from my experience at the LAN in particular never happened.
Nothing wrong with the occasional jab. That's not what this is in my XP.

It's a recurring joke that's not meant to be negative, just look at how Garja and Diarouga were at lan together it was maybe slightly frosty but not in any sense negative. Maybe people just need to be thicker skinned, especially seeing as ESOC, for it's most part, has a level of anonymity.
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Re: bullying

Post by Kawapasaka »

god the level of over-analysis in this thread :uglylol:
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Re: bullying

Post by spanky4ever »

I mean, the game with Garja vs H20, was the tipping point for me- After all this, now THIS :hmm: But I guess most of you ppl will not get to watch it and the chat, and the audience. It was awful. But then again, the tip of the mountain. It was for members only, and I guess it will not be online with the chats.
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