ESOCommunity

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 11:23**

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I remember the days when this thread was about the reaction to GUA's twitch channel.....

Stop living in the past grandpa and come back to the present where we talk complete shite about random shit

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 11:25**

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I remember the days when this thread was about the reaction to GUA's twitch channel.....

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 11:40**

-- deleted post --

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 12:04**

kami_ryu wrote:but the current topic is closely related to the ban

This. It was only about GuA's specific case for a few posts and then we knew what happened so the discussion grew into something more broad. Don't see what's wrong with that, other than you could argue it's now in the wrong section of the forums.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 12:06**

fightinfrenchman wrote:Glad other people are starting to realize how awful Dolan is

It took me reading two of his posts to know that I will not read another one. I Just skip over his posts and those that quote him. He is one of the worst types of people around.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 12:17**

Goodspeed wrote:Not that I've read any of it, but I'm wondering what you think is untrue about this article @Dolan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_diffe ... psychology

It's basically an enumeration of various findings from different studies, summarised in one or two sentences. So there's not much room for inaccuracy there, especially if they linked the studies directly. I can't really verify right now 155 references to see if they represented those conclusions right.

Most of what's in the article seems accurate or plausible. Research doesn't always yield consistent results even across one decade. It's not unheard of to have a dogma established in the 1980s get completely discredited in the 2000s and then reinstated in the 2010s onwards. This sort of reversals in the record track do happen and will continue to happen. So there is room for doubt in many of the things that are said there.

On a first reading, I noticed that there are also things that are missing from the article, as well as some dubious interpretations.

Things that are missing:
No mention of differences in the hypothalamus, overall or in its nuclei. This is the fundamental difference, not just some small detail; this difference is likely to have "downstream" effects over other sexually dimorphic traits. So the way I imagine that those other traits, which are listed there to show sexual differences, emerge is by "branching out" from this basic and most solid difference between men and women (which is also replicated behaviourally, in psychology studies).

They mention lots of brain regions that are partially or slightly lateralised in men and women (lateralisation = those regions show hemispheric specialisation, which makes one region or hemisphere larger than the other), but they don't explicitly say it that overall men show greater lateralisation, depending on handedness. That is, right-handed men show greater specialisation in the left hemisphere (this means greater volume too), while right-handed women show less. The same pattern is seen in people of opposite handedness, except in reverse. You can ask "how is this relevant for psychological differences?" Well, if women have lower hemispheric specialisation, then this explains their better performance in verbal memory tasks and multitasking. Task handling is more distributed across hemispheres and since female brains, on average, have better inter-hemispheric connections (through the corpus callosum), there is a better inter-communication between bi-lateral areas (that is, across both hemispheres). On the other hand, it makes sense the men have a more specialised hemisphere, which points to a more focused approach to task execution in men, especially when it comes to spatial rotation, motor tasks, stuff like that. Some of these things have been metioned in the article, but they didn't explain what's the brain substrate for these differences.

Some dubious interpretations:
When they discuss this finding: "Gender differences in personality traits are largest in prosperous, healthy, and egalitarian cultures in which women have more opportunities that are equal to those of men."
Their interpretations are all over the place, entirely missing the point. They don't consider the possibility that more equalitarian societies place more pressure on men to differentiate in terms of personality traits, since all other things are getting equalised. The way in which they just skirt around the issue, considering every possible implausible explanation is just retarded.

When it comes to gender identity, they quickly skim over it, writing a passing note: "How these identities are formed is unknown, although some studies have suggested that male-to-female transgenderism is related to androgen levels during fetal development". Only one mention of causation and that is biological. No mention of developmental theories like Ray Blanchard's.

There's also a lot of typical "evolutionary theory" bullshit speculation across the whole article, but I don't think that's worth discussing.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 12:25**

HeadKilla wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:Glad other people are starting to realize how awful Dolan is
It took me reading two of his posts to know that I will not read another one. I Just skip over his posts and those that quote him. He is one of the worst types of people around.

I respect that, but do not agree. Whether he knows it or not, @Dolan was there for me when I really needed someone to be and is one of my favorite people on here. Same goes for @Gendarme - 2 people who seem to stir up controversy and appear to be oh so cold, yet have proven themselves time and again to me to be trustworthy, reliable, empathetic, and dare I say even warm in their own way. We should all try to get to really know people before dismissing them.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 12:31**

@Dolan do you want to really get to know each other with me? Honest offer.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 12:51**

XeeleeFlower wrote:
HeadKilla wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:Glad other people are starting to realize how awful Dolan is
It took me reading two of his posts to know that I will not read another one. I Just skip over his posts and those that quote him. He is one of the worst types of people around.
I respect that, but do not agree. Whether he knows it or not, @Dolan was there for me when I really needed someone to be and is one of my favorite people on here. Same goes for @Gendarme - 2 people who seem to stir up controversy and appear to be oh so cold, yet have proven themselves time and again to me to be trustworthy, reliable, empathetic, and dare I say even warm in their own way. We should all try to get to really know people before dismissing them.

While I am thankful that you have the time and energy to get to know these types of people, I rather enjoy my time with those that do not purposely create drama. There are far more good people in the world than there are Dolan's and I prefer to focus on them.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 13:57**

-- deleted post --

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 14:33**

HeadKilla wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:Glad other people are starting to realize how awful Dolan is
It took me reading two of his posts to know that I will not read another one. I Just skip over his posts and those that quote him. He is one of the worst types of people around.

And you seem like yet another judgmental staff member who thinks they're above everyone else.

Being relatively new to the community, you could try to be a little more reserved in your judgments.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 14:47**

Goodspeed wrote:
HeadKilla wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:Glad other people are starting to realize how awful Dolan is
It took me reading two of his posts to know that I will not read another one. I Just skip over his posts and those that quote him. He is one of the worst types of people around.
And you seem like yet another judgmental staff member who thinks they're above everyone else.

Being relatively new to the community, you could try to be a little more reserved in your judgments.

I thought this of Dolan within weeks of joining these forums and well before ever being on staff. I do not have room for racist/homophobic people or those that want to excuse such behavior.

Beyond this, how can I be less judgmental? I am all for personal growth and certainly don't want to present myself as above everyone else. Please do give me insight into this opinion of yours as you are respected and I have not been told this before.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 14:54**

Goodspeed and Xeelee are willy nilly acid eating molly popping hippies, in the best of way, with good jobs. They're going to skew further than most. You can have opinions of users just as users have opinions of you, but I think it makes sense to reserve said opinions on a per-post basis rather than a per-person basis. Also it's impossible to "really get to know someone" over the internet, especially like this, so what can ultimately be inferred, at any rate?

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:03**

HeadKilla wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
Show hidden quotes
HeadKilla wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:Glad other people are starting to realize how awful Dolan is
It took me reading two of his posts to know that I will not read another one. I Just skip over his posts and those that quote him. He is one of the worst types of people around.
And you seem like yet another judgmental staff member who thinks they're above everyone else.

Being relatively new to the community, you could try to be a little more reserved in your judgments.
I thought this of Dolan within weeks of joining these forums and well before ever being on staff. I do not have room for racist/homophobic people or those that want to excuse such behavior.

Beyond this, how can I be less judgmental? I am all for personal growth and certainly don't want to present myself as above everyone else. Please do give me insight into this opinion of yours as you are respected and I have not been told this before.

Everyone has first impressions, but as someone who has little to no knowledge of or experience interacting with a person maybe you shouldn't vocalize them right away.

More fundamentally, accepting that people may be different than you would certainly help. When confronted with a dissenting opinion or perspective, an open-minded person engages with it. A closed-minded person ignores it. A judgmental person not only ignores it but immediately vocalizes their disdain for the person expressing it. And yeah, if you read 2 of someone's posts and decide you're not reading any more, then go on to call them "one of the worst people here", you're looking pretty judgmental. But maybe I shouldn't have taken your words that literally.

There's also this:

HeadKilla wrote:I was thinking the other day that I understand everyone deserves to express themselves and just because I don't understand or appreciate something does not mean others do not derive some value for themselves. OK flower power

But why do the ESOC forums need to be his outlet? There are millions of forums he can go provide zero value to and actually deter users from. Why are you letting it be ESOC? What responsibility do you have to him? Just because he has the right to express himself, does not mean he has the right to do it wherever he wants. I just don't get it.

Where you imply we should get rid of ear because you don't share his sense of humor.

And yes, I'm being hypocritical.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:04**

I think it's not a good use of time to constantly engage with people who are racist

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:22**

@Goodspeed I hope there are no hard feelings. This has caught me off guard.

I will never tolerate or accept people that are proud and openly racist, homophobic, sexist or discriminating, into my life. If this makes me a judgmental person across the board, I will have to accept that. If this is the only instance of me being judgmental that you are concerned with, I am sorry to you and anyone else that is disappointed in me for having these beliefs. I am also sorry for saying he is the worst type of person. Obviously there are far worse people, such as those that act on the same beliefs he has. Again, thankfully the two of you are in his corner and can hopefully get to know better why he acts the way he does and take the time to nurture and give him love.

Perhaps if this person was my neighbor or cousin I would want to understand better why they have these beliefs. That does not mean I would accept their beliefs or allow justification for their validity.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:44**

I understand not wanting to engage with it. The thing is, vocalizing your disapproval is actually engaging, just in a way where the discussion is never going to be fruitful.

For the record, I wouldn't say I'm in Dolan's corner. If anything, I'm in the corner of free speech and anti-echo-chamber. I appreciate Dolan mostly because he's one of the few people actually stopping this place from turning into a politically correct, leftist echo chamber. Don't get me wrong, I don't take issue with either political correctness or leftist worldviews, I just love dissenting opinions. They keep us sharp and allow us to broaden our horizons.

And one important thing to note is that if Dolan is racist, homophobic, sexist and/or discriminating it's not from a place of hate. Rather it's his interpretation of the evidence and his attempt to counteract what he thinks is excessive political correctness in our discourse.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:46**

@Goodspeed @XeeleeFlower can we still be friends?

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:50**

Please don't take my posts to be representations of xeelee's opinion, in case you were doing that

Also, yes.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:51**

What do you mean by politically correct discourse?

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:52**

@HeadKilla Friends don't always agree, but they do respect one another.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 15:54**

princeofcarthage wrote:What do you mean by politically correct discourse?

Discourse where people consciously avoid offending anyone.

From the wiki:

Since the late 1980s, the term has been used to describe a preference for inclusive language and avoiding language or behavior that can be seen as excluding, marginalizing, or insulting groups of people considered disadvantaged or discriminated against, especially groups defined by sex or race.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 16:04**

Why would you consciously not avoid offending anyone? Seems to me literal definition of an asshole.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 16:09**

When avoiding offense would stop you from properly being able to express your opinion, or the truth. I'm sure @Dolan would have a more thorough answer to this.

Posted: **23 Jan 2020, 16:11**

I have lots of opinions that I don't express because I don't want to offend people.

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