Headkilla resigns

[Imperial Noob]

.

[fightinfrenchman]

I used to play the bassoon a bit, it was really fun. I hope to be able to own one someday.

[[Armag] diarouga]

You may want to read the post he made about this, it's at the top of the first page.

Still don't know what he's talking about.

Read from here onwards: viewtopic.php?f=314&t=19270&start=200#p416963

cba to spend time reading off topic. Can you sum it up ?

[deleted_user]

Nope.

[edeholland]

Show hidden quotes

You may want to read the post he made about this, it's at the top of the first page.

Still don't know what he's talking about.

Read from here onwards: viewtopic.php?f=314&t=19270&start=200#p416963

cba to spend time reading off topic. Can you sum it up ?

You are reading it now

[Imperial Noob]

.

[fightinfrenchman]

Ye my high school had a bassoon that nobody else used and I also played it a bit more when taking a Woodwinds class in college.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

You may want to read the post he made about this, it's at the top of the first page.

Still don't know what he's talking about.

Read from here onwards: viewtopic.php?f=314&t=19270&start=200#p416963

cba to spend time reading off topic. Can you sum it up ?

You are reading it now

I read one post.

[bittersalt123]

@HeadKilla

I think someone who has donated money for tournaments should have a say in how they're run because you've put your money into it. There's more of a reason for you to be an admin for the best of us who have no financial stake in the tourneys. People who hate on you are just jealous and they figure by making you upset they can feel better about their sad lives.

lol this is classic jealously behavior you're experiencing

[Kaiserklein]

He has reasons, though

Tell us more. "I feel offended because of racism, sexism and homophobia" doesn't sounds like a good reason. Why even care ? If you get offended every time someone says something you don't like, you're not going to go very far.

According to his post, he's not really offended by some idiots being racist, but by it being tolerated on the forums. Which makes perfect sense as esoc shouldn't tolerate it.

Now, did esoc actually tolerate that sort of things? Idk

[Goodspeed]

@HeadKilla

ESOC's off topic forum certainly isn't for everyone. It's the off topic forum for a reason. It's expected to contain discussion about world events and society. Political correctness, hate speech and society's response to it are examples of relevant discussions.

Discussing hate speech and people's usage of hateful slurs isn't the same as using them. Hate speech itself is not tolerated let alone encouraged.
Again, being new to it, maybe you should be a little more reserved in your judgment of the place. In any case, if you don't like OT there are ways to filter it out of your active threads. You don't have to read it.

I can't speak to the issue where people are saying you bought your way to staff. As far as I can see, you seem a valuable addition to the team. I know it's hard, but try to shake stuff like that. Treat it like the load of crap you know it to be.

[kami_ryu]

-- deleted post --

[[Armag] diarouga]

He has reasons, though

Tell us more. "I feel offended because of racism, sexism and homophobia" doesn't sounds like a good reason. Why even care ? If you get offended every time someone says something you don't like, you're not going to go very far.

According to his post, he's not really offended by some idiots being racist, but by it being tolerated on the forums. Which makes perfect sense as esoc shouldn't tolerate it.

Now, did esoc actually tolerate that sort of things? Idk

That would make more sense, I thought he was offended by someone.

[zoom]

I have been receiving negative feedback for my performance or actions while being an ESOC admin. I have also been told that it is a common belief that I paid to have this access. In my defense, I thought I was helping the community out with a donation, never asked for admin access but rather was asked to accept it. I thought that by staying positive in the forums/twitch I would be a good example for others, especially new members. However it seems that I am only causing problems. I will never tolerate or accept racist/sexist and homophobic statements or actions. I do not accept that it is OK for people to make racist comments or share their racist beliefs in a public forum. I am shocked that I am in the minority here and that I have been shamed for thinking it is wrong to purposely offend and upset people of this community for being black and/or gay. It is wrong to provide an place for people to share hate speech. It is especially upsetting to me that some admins and those that make ESOC run encourage and participate in this behavior. I for one, put my personal beliefs ahead of administrative duties. Please remove all Administrative access or permissions I have on anything ESOC related. I do not want any moderation rights on the streams or forums. I also do not want to continue to welcome new members into a community that is tolerant of this behavior and shamming those that agree.

Are you, by chance, the person who reported GUA to Twitch?

I'm not at all familiar with your actions or the negative feedback you've been receiving, but your position seems perfectly reasonable.

What a shame!

[HeadKilla]

I really hope you'd reconsider. This tourney design is the best yet, and I believe you had a large part in many aspects of it. I don't know what specifically this is about but I hope you stick around.

This is about people that represent ESOC expressing derogatory opinions and/or the acceptance of other's that do in a public forum. I did just check and I did not find anything on this site that says this behavior is not acceptable. Just reading through a few posts and I can see that it is in fact accepted and supported.

On another but similar note.
I was thinking about this. GUA is probably the cleanest and most professional provider of content out there and I am sad someone reported him and his stream was temp banned. However, some of his behaviors are not acceptable and perhaps this was a good thing for him to learn from. I am aware that many people have used "gay" to mean bad traditionally and its sort of ingrained in the culture of young men. But that does not mean it's OK or it should be accepted to use such language in a public forum or stream. Its also not fair to expect someone to immediately stop using language they have used for so long. In this case, I do not think GUA is trying to be hurtful for the purpose of being mean. But the fact remains, he is adding to any negative connotation associated with being gay. So, GUA gets a temp ban and is upset at first, but if you read his posts, ultimately he reaches a place where he recognizes he needs to make a change to his vernacular in order to get to the next level of streaming. Not for one moment have I ever thought GUA was a hateful or disrespectful person. It does make me feel bad when he uses these words and I am happy to hear that he has decided to clean up his image. GUA will grow from this and get better as a result.

[fightinfrenchman]

@HeadKilla There used to be rules against hate speech but I think that rules post was deleted

[chris1089]

So is headkilla upset about alleged hateful comments or the discussion of controversial topics by people who don't hold the same opinion as him?
Also, If I think headkilla's comments are "hateful" does that make them hate speech?
How can you know if something is hateful, since that would require imputing motive to the person making the comment?
I notice people discussing topics that people get upset about, but I don't really see ESOC "tolerating" racism, sexism etc.
By the definition of derogatory, your lastpost is just that.

I guess the thing I'm getting at is, this all seems subjective, not based on actual events, and certainly not on objective standards.

[Challenger_Marco]

I really hope you'd reconsider. This tourney design is the best yet, and I believe you had a large part in many aspects of it. I don't know what specifically this is about but I hope you stick around.

This is about people that represent ESOC expressing derogatory opinions and/or the acceptance of other's that do in a public forum. I did just check and I did not find anything on this site that says this behavior is not acceptable. Just reading through a few posts and I can see that it is in fact accepted and supported.

On another but similar note.
I was thinking about this. GUA is probably the cleanest and most professional provider of content out there and I am sad someone reported him and his stream was temp banned. However, some of his behaviors are not acceptable and perhaps this was a good thing for him to learn from. I am aware that many people have used "gay" to mean bad traditionally and its sort of ingrained in the culture of young men. But that does not mean it's OK or it should be accepted to use such language in a public forum or stream. Its also not fair to expect someone to immediately stop using language they have used for so long. In this case, I do not think GUA is trying to be hurtful for the purpose of being mean. But the fact remains, he is adding to any negative connotation associated with being gay. So, GUA gets a temp ban and is upset at first, but if you read his posts, ultimately he reaches a place where he recognizes he needs to make a change to his vernacular in order to get to the next level of streaming. Not for one moment have I ever thought GUA was a hateful or disrespectful person. It does make me feel bad when he uses these words and I am happy to hear that he has decided to clean up his image. GUA will grow from this and get better as a result.

indirectly saying you reported him on twitch?

[Challenger_Marco]

i hate dolan posts they are useless anyway ,jerom does way better at arguing and proving points dolan just opposite only spam words,i lose brain cells reading it.

[Aramir]

I will never tolerate or accept racist/sexist and homophobic statements or actions. I do not accept that it is OK for people to make racist comments or share their racist beliefs in a public forum. I am shocked that I am in the minority here and that I have been shamed for thinking it is wrong to purposely offend and upset people of this community for being black and/or gay. It is wrong to provide an place for people to share hate speech. It is especially upsetting to me that some admins and those that make ESOC run encourage and participate in this behavior.

Just reading through a few posts and I can see that it is in fact accepted and supported

u are just talking around stuff and throwing accusations at the "majority" without giving any context. this just feels like u are pissed at somebody and dragging it out to the whole community to make a big scene about something which of course is important and makes completly sense to fight for.
im pretty sure that everybody on this forum agrees about not accepting "racist/sexist and homophobic statements" but u always have to consider that its a stupid internet forum where people dont think about stuff before they write them. that beeing said this whole thing makes no sense for somebody like me who havent read the forum thread which i think ure refering to here the whole time without acutally giving any examples

[HeadKilla]

I have been receiving negative feedback for my performance or actions while being an ESOC admin. I have also been told that it is a common belief that I paid to have this access. In my defense, I thought I was helping the community out with a donation, never asked for admin access but rather was asked to accept it. I thought that by staying positive in the forums/twitch I would be a good example for others, especially new members. However it seems that I am only causing problems. I will never tolerate or accept racist/sexist and homophobic statements or actions. I do not accept that it is OK for people to make racist comments or share their racist beliefs in a public forum. I am shocked that I am in the minority here and that I have been shamed for thinking it is wrong to purposely offend and upset people of this community for being black and/or gay. It is wrong to provide an place for people to share hate speech. It is especially upsetting to me that some admins and those that make ESOC run encourage and participate in this behavior. I for one, put my personal beliefs ahead of administrative duties. Please remove all Administrative access or permissions I have on anything ESOC related. I do not want any moderation rights on the streams or forums. I also do not want to continue to welcome new members into a community that is tolerant of this behavior and shamming those that agree.

Are you, by chance, the person who reported GUA to Twitch?

I'm not at all familiar with your actions or the negative feedback you've been receiving, but your position seems perfectly reasonable.

What a shame!

No, I did not report GUA. I consider GUA a friend and valuable member of this community. I have not reported anyone for anything or banned anyone for anything except a few timeouts in the esoc and GUA streams. The problem is, I am particularly sensitive to racial prejudice being from a mixed race family with mix race children and grandchildren as well as a several gay extended family members. I am not tough enough to be an admin and tolerate so much ignorance.

As far as tournaments go, I provided Cometk a rough draft and he did most of the work to make it happen. In that regard, I am sure nothing would change with my resignation. Anyone with time could do everything I do as an admin.

[bittersalt123]

Has anyone considered that the invite spammer dude might be behind GUA getting banned?

[Hououin Kyouma]

I mean, as a new member, I came to the understanding that people here have their own "things" and shitposting rivalries, but how do you expect people whose first contact with the community is this forum to react when they stumble upon an example of hate speech. Call me sappy or whatever, but is it such a bad thing to want everyone to play and have fun instead of tossing around hateful things towards each other?
Yes, perhaps these things aren't so common, maybe it is just a couple of specific people, that does not mean they should be allowed to do so freely, if your goal is to have an accepting community.

[zoom]

Making the argument that either goodspeed or xeelee are all right with, or promoting, bigotry is downright insulting. I won't stir the pot more than that.

Who made that argument?

[sebnan12]

hpc xD