This is not goodbye.

[Challenger_Marco]

I honestly feel moderation is not strict & is let loose ,like years ago i saw a lot of ppl getting warning for posts ,but nowadays i barely see.

[Challenger_Marco]

Where is headkilla? we forgot about him ,i saw him saying i quit because there was some racist ppl ,sad man ,he loved the game ,donated a lot but quit coz of unequality....

[princeofkabul]

im interested who are these notorious casters?

[chris1089]

Can we stay on the topic of the concerns raised by Mitoe please.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

For the love of Esoc can we just delete off topic now? Don't need to see a continue stream of negativity and 500 page discussion on the 2020 us election haha

[Goodspeed]

A community is only as good as its people.

ESOC has had a lot of toxicity problems from the beginning. It comes back to the culture shift where being toxic became the norm among top players, or at least accepted. And whatever happens in the high level community propagates. Soon enough, being a respectful and decent person was exceptional here. This in no small part contributed to my leaving the game.

Toxic players would've been shunned in 2010, no matter how good they were. If you want to get back to that, that's where you start. Don't ban anyone, but consistently make it clear that this kind of behavior isn't appreciated by anyone here. Don't be a fan. Don't put them on a pedestal.

It's something that has to come from all of you. Blaming staff or off topic is completely misunderstanding the situation. You have a people problem, not a policy one.

[princeofkabul]

Me and sam already have came to conclusion that we're washed up, and we're proud of that!

I wish old mikey boy would reconsider his decision though.

[HUMMAN]

Personally i really like freedom policy of ESOC. Toxicity should be balanced by community, not admins. Otherwise admins can be seen as toxic too, and community gets toxicity level up again. But respectable members should take responsibility and guide community in these situations.

[aligator92]

@Mitoe you have been a major pillar of this community. An epitome of decency, common sense and constructive mindset. I want to thank you for that.
It would be a shame to lose you in that role but its your right to leave, you don't owe us anything.

[voigt1240]

I have always enjoyed listening to Mister Harrison. His commentary and handsome voice never fails to make me All hot and bothered

[comradecommissar]

@I_HaRRiiSoN_I is a great caster and I feel like he needs to be appreciated more.

[Hazza54321]

the best combo of caster is someone like harrison and scroogie with someone like kaiser or mitoe.

Regarding this thread its a sad read but at the very least i hope this is a wake up call for all of us. I think it has gotten more negative, usually revolving around recs or twitch chat. Hopefully with the release of DE the discussion will be abit different and abit of a fresh start as weve had problems like these since the beginning.
I do think twitch chat does need to be more strict as i feel like anyone can post anything in there, perhaps more mods or more active mods.
Never understood the shittalking of the casters, if theyre a bad caster, theyre a bad caster, dont need to gob off at them as theyre spending their free time to do it and just keep your thoughts to yourself or at least be more constructive.
Regarding the casters flaming the players, I know some people took my "insulting" of sam and kaiser the wrong way and hope most people realised i was joking as i get on well with both of them (even slept with one of them not naming names). Point being there maybe a fine line between banter and insults regarding casting.

I do hope you reconsider Michael pulchsnortghjski as you are the father of us all (if you dont count stanley_winston)

[BrookG]

the best combo of caster is someone like harrison and scroogie with someone like kaiser or mitoe.

Regarding this thread its a sad read but at the very least i hope this is a wake up call for all of us. I think it has gotten more negative, usually revolving around recs or twitch chat. Hopefully with the release of DE the discussion will be abit different and abit of a fresh start as weve had problems like these since the beginning.
I do think twitch chat does need to be more strict as i feel like anyone can post anything in there, perhaps more mods or more active mods.
Never understood the shittalking of the casters, if theyre a bad caster, theyre a bad caster, dont need to gob off at them as theyre spending their free time to do it and just keep your thoughts to yourself or at least be more constructive.
Regarding the casters flaming the players, I know some people took my "insulting" of sam and kaiser the wrong way and hope most people realised i was joking as i get on well with both of them (even slept with one of them not naming names). Point being there maybe a fine line between banter and insults regarding casting.

I do hope you reconsider Michael pulchsnortghjski as you are the father of us all (if you dont count stanley_winston)

Let's all agree, we need more Hazza positivity in our lives

[Riotcoke]

Also yea complaining about casters is honestly the most annoying thing, especially when it's someone's first couple of tries or the person obviously hasn't got the best English, they're obviously trying their best for free. If someone tries casting and gets negative feedback and stops this isn't just bad for the person themselves it also negatively impacts ESOC streams etc and, to be a bit selfish, puts more pressure on other casters who might not entirely want to cast as much.

Also @I_HaRRiiSoN_I Is honestly a godsend with how much he does.

[Astaroth]

I feel there is no need to exaggerate the issues with ESOC: In fact, even today I feel it is much less toxic and more wholesome than e.g. RTS-Sanctuary ever was.

Forums have ups and downs, I'm sure the current negativity can be overcome.

Everyone should just take a chill pill and always make sure to remember that you are talking to fellow humans.

[oxaloacetate]

Welp, how about chilling the f--- out. This level of antagonizm is crazy.

[rsy]

Thanks for everything @Mitoe hope to see u on DE

[[Armag] diarouga]

The thing I've seen working on other hobbyist forums is the ban on any political discussion. A discussion of events such as COVID-19 is ok, as long as it doesn't become about politicians, but instead is kept at a constructive personal and community level.

Moreover, forumer-vs-forumer accusation threads such as those by Headkilla and comradecomissar should be closed based on the "knock it off" principle. Did you you notice the pattern how veteran forumers usually start with "don't escalate, don't escalate!" (basically a call for a temporary and informal ban of politics) but a newbie does not listen and then it all spills, with new and old forumers reacting alike, often to different things?

100% agree with everything you say here.
We all knew from the start how the "ESOC racism" thread was going to end.
Had it been locked immediately or after 2 pages, we wouldn't have had 30 pages of politics and the drama we're having now.

[t3rror1sta]

goodbye until October 15

[Good ol Ivan]

It's a forum
For a 15 year old videogame
People play videogames for fun
People post in forums for fun

Why is it so outlandish to consider people are having fun on twitch or on the forum?
If a user's only purpose in the forum is to annoy other people then yeah maybe he should be banned.
But otherwise how does it personally affect any of you that other people have some fun in banter or discussing topics they like and find interesting. This is some very boomer tier mindset. Actually it's even worse. Back when we had an actual boomer (Metis) I recall him being pretty chill.
And like Dolan already said, there's no reason to think whatever is said in the off topic section is breaking the community apart.
And I also find it funny that many posters here are blaming the alt-right trolls, supposed fascists, nazis and whatnot. Because yes, people having political ideas different from yours is definitely ruining the community.
I have no idea what's going on in twitch, but the only recent drama I recall started up because some guy told others to shut up and stop caring for balance when there are bigger things at stake when they said they disagreed with the change in coin gathering for native american civ. Here I jumped in and threw gas to the fire, that much is right. But I didn't want to piss him off just for the sake of it. He was belittling other people whose only offense was to care for the future of the game and claim that MS shouldn't give up balance for PCness points. Again, I have no idea what's going on twitch, but maybe it was just some guy bantering? Personally I think overly strict rules/moderation and "enforcing a positive attitude" (whatever that means) ruins more the fun than allowing people to have a little banter.

[Riotcoke]

Seriously why can't you guys stick to one thread this is getting so tiring

[voigt1240]

I am saying Surely we can't move past toxicity by shoving it under the rug,

Yes we can. For example, anybody who misbehaves gets a slap on the wrist. Sometimes prohibition and punishment are the only way out.

but rather find a middle ground.

There is no middle ground. Against the rules is against the rules. Clear insults are clear insults. It's clear that you and some others just want the status quo, you guys don't want anything to change.

Your comment just brings People back to the political talk and Even escalates it.

Eh no it doesn't. On the contrary. Further talking about it, like what you do for example, brings people back to it, escalating it once more! Especially if there is nothing more to say really.
I try to put an end to this nonsensical crap by highlighting what's wrong.
Some people just got way too used to having very lax moderation. You guys just wait, there is an end in sight concerning these shenanigans

I don't think you understand what i am saying at all, i don't think your response is coldheaded and reasonable to what i have been saying. So let's just end it here.

[Hazza54321]

Mods why hasnt this shit been moved to a seperate thread or just deleted

[edeholland]

Mods why hasnt this shit been moved to a seperate thread or just deleted

Because it took me a long time to select all the posts for moving them to a new thread. I'm finished now, this thread is relatively clean again.

[edeholland]

Everyone should make sure to read this follow-up thread before responding here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=21508