Discussion about off-topic & forum rules

[Dolan]

Actually, it's probably a good idea to silence someone, because they will join a group of talibans who will later trigger social change for everyone.
So, antagonising and silencing those you disagree with will later lead to social change in a direction opposite to what you'd like.

[aaryngend]

Imo, when you silence someone, they become radicalised. So you actually aggravate the issue for the sake of some other people's mental comfort.

No. Sometimes you need to silence certain things. Nothing wrong with that.
Our N3O forum also never had any issues like this which brought the quality of the community down, there are some small bad apples here and there but they got fixed before anything escalated. We also had a lot of political discussions, they were just for members only though.

[Riotcoke]

Political discussion is not the problem. It's just easy to blame. Maybe for that reason alone you should keep it around. What will you blame if there is no OT? God forbid you ever have to admit that the problem is the community itself, and that it's not something you can actually fix overnight.

What you'll fix by banning political discussion:
- The occasional controversial thread in off topic

What you won't fix:
- People being sore losers
- People being mad that there are recs being posted of them losing
- Rivalries that turn into grudges
- Trolls
- People flaming their team mates
- People being unable to leave their ego at the door and discuss the game respectfully
- People cheating in tournaments
- People getting doxxed
- People being dicks to each other in general
- ...
- People

The influx of new players from DE may have a positive effect. Beyond that, I'm sorry but you need to just suck it up.

My point is why do we need politics being discussed, it's like the one thing that people will always argue about

[Sargsyan]

GiB cannot post himself he is banned for trying to unite the people

[SoldieR]

What's better for the community going forward?
An overmodded place where you get posts deleted or temp bans or warnings for questionable statements
Or
A freaking circus that new young players shouldn't be allowed on because it's too vulgar a place

[Makrokosmos12]

But yeah, that's why I had to leave too. There's just too much toxicity and bigotry here. What happened to basic human decency? I bet most people wouldn't say the bad things they write here directly to our faces.

but you actually never left

I did, but I came back to celebrate various days of the week. I won't be able to do that anymore, though. That thread is now locked. See you on the other side, brother*.

*in case of accidental sexism: sister

Viewing profile - Gendarme
Interests: Killing strelets

[Snow Lynx]

Just a very vocal minority ruining it for the majority, as per usual with these things.

Just a lot of people pushing their opinion too hard, and then self victimising when they don’t get their desired result like spoilt brats. We know who they are, and we know they should be the ones leaving the forum, not good long-standing members of the community.

[Goodspeed]

What you'll fix by banning political discussion:
- The occasional controversial thread in off topic

Ye, and that's what created the drama of this week.

What you won't fix:
- People being sore losers
- People being mad that there are recs being posted of them losing
- Rivalries that turn into grudges
- Trolls
- People flaming their team mates
- People being unable to leave their ego at the door and discuss the game respectfully
- People cheating in tournaments
- People getting doxxed
- People being dicks to each other in general
- ...
- People

These are issues, but if we can fix half of the issues (controversial threads in off topic), that's already something.

In no universe is that "half of the issues". It's not going to magically make everyone decent and respectful to each other.

[_H2O]

This forum is meant to be for age of empires 3 related discussion. I am very in favor of rules that limit other discussions out right on this forum.

I recently learned something great about hobbies that I never realized. They serve as levers for people of different backgrounds and points of view. When we play age of empires 3 it doesn’t matter which country you are from, it doesn’t matter what your religious or political views are either. We are all here to engage in an equal footing in age of empires 3. Whether that is playing competitively or just having a fun game with friends, you can relate and form new friendships with people outside the stress of real issues. This holds true for sports as well, you can be in a casual adult football league regardless of your income or social status and everyone is instantly able to bond over that common hobby.

When this forum allows people to discuss other issues and allows people to personally attack each other it strips away the benefit of AOE3 as a hobby. That leads to decline in the community for those who want to enjoy the hobby.

I think if you look closely the people who are advocating "free speech" don't even play the game anymore. Those other conversations can be had somewhere else and the community will thrive more without the conversations and agitation.

What should be done?
1. Update the rules to clearly limit these types of discussions
2. Be more consistent in the application of forum rules and act quickly
3. Hold staff to a higher level of accountability to the rules

[Goodspeed]

Political discussion is not the problem. It's just easy to blame. Maybe for that reason alone you should keep it around. What will you blame if there is no OT? God forbid you ever have to admit that the problem is the community itself, and that it's not something you can actually fix overnight.

What you'll fix by banning political discussion:
- The occasional controversial thread in off topic

What you won't fix:
- People being sore losers
- People being mad that there are recs being posted of them losing
- Rivalries that turn into grudges
- Trolls
- People flaming their team mates
- People being unable to leave their ego at the door and discuss the game respectfully
- People cheating in tournaments
- People getting doxxed
- People being dicks to each other in general
- ...
- People

The influx of new players from DE may have a positive effect. Beyond that, I'm sorry but you need to just suck it up.

My point is why do we need politics being discussed, it's like the one thing that people will always argue about

AoE3 being the other one thing people will always argue about?
You don't need it. But you want it because it enables people who are taking a break from the game to still be on your site, see events that are happening, tune into a stream or two and maybe rekindle passion for the game.

It's also simply a way for people to get to know each other, which makes a community feel more like a community.
Without OT, I'm positive this community would be smaller. And probably exactly the same amount toxic.

[Ashvin]

3. Hold staff to a higher level of accountability to the rules

Can't help but write to this, current staff has many people who dont act with the decorum of a character one should look up to. And this is needed. If they're not good with people skills maybe they should be asked to hold their thoughts and channel it through different presentable mediums.

[Astaroth]

I honestly don't think you need to outlaw non-aoe3-discussion in order to have a successful forum. There are other large forums, such as twcenter.net, which have both "game related" forums and "political" forums, and they work just fine.

However, if there is deemed to be a problem with the type of content posted here (flaming/spam etc.), then you could simply introduce stricter rules and/or enforce existing ones more strictly. One suggestion would be to limit all kinds of "spam" threads without an apparent point (e.g. just random gibberish which not so seldomly gets posted in off-topic) to a simple "chat thread" in the OT forum.

[Ashvin]

Political discussion is not the problem. It's just easy to blame. Maybe for that reason alone you should keep it around. What will you blame if there is no OT? God forbid you ever have to admit that the problem is the community itself, and that it's not something you can actually fix overnight.

What you'll fix by banning political discussion:
- The occasional controversial thread in off topic

What you won't fix:
- People being sore losers
- People being mad that there are recs being posted of them losing
- Rivalries that turn into grudges
- Trolls
- People flaming their team mates
- People being unable to leave their ego at the door and discuss the game respectfully
- People cheating in tournaments
- People getting doxxed
- People being dicks to each other in general
- ...
- People

The influx of new players from DE may have a positive effect. Beyond that, I'm sorry but you need to just suck it up.

My point is why do we need politics being discussed, it's like the one thing that people will always argue about

You don't need it. But you want it because it enables people who are taking a break from the game to still be on your site, see events that are happening, tune into a stream or two and maybe rekindle passion for the game.

It's also simply a way for people to get to know each other, which makes a community feel more like a community.
Without OT, I'm positive this community would be much smaller. And probably exactly the same amount toxic.

Why should this community be big? How does it serve the purpose of the very existence of ESOC?

[evilcheadar]

Just ban people who use slurs it’s simple ngl

[voigt1240]

Just ban people who use slurs it’s simple ngl

Agreed, this is the leading issue in my book.

[Goodspeed]

If you go to play a game and you have to walk on eggshells around your opponent if you win, or around your teammate if you lose a teamgame, how are we even talking about off topic? If you get on ESO and there's one game up but you know that person will kick you if you join because you beat them last night, how is off topic the subject?

Admitting you have a problem is the first step, guys.

[Ashvin]

I am all for creating an off-topic section. But if we can't handle the problems, would it harm if we shut it down temporarily while we work on problems which require immediate attention and then plan to launch it with a better robust system? By the system i mean, putting together manpower and rules to make sure things don't go out of hand. I have seen people enforcing wholesomeness in some discords so it is not impossible. It will be if you want free speech though.

[deleted_user]

[evilcheadar]

Off topic is an important section of the forums, arguably more important than any other section

[RuinousEdge]

I think the only logic solution to a situation such as this is to #modtheEAR.
Only then can balance be brought to the forceforums.

[Dolan]

What is even the problem here? That some forum users are upset that the level of flaming in some threads and in the Twitch chat has increased? And that's somehow caused by political discussions in the offtopic section? I thought most people on the forum didn't even read the offtopic, how could this be the cause of your annoyance? If you're not a regular and you don't even read it, how could this cause your issues in the AOE3 forum sections? Those who are regular posters in the political threads of the offtopic barely post outside that section, so how did you even identify this section as the source of your problems?

These are the regulars in the real-life offtopic subsection where most political threads are: iwillspankyou, fightingfrenchman, duckzilla, wardyb1, noel, chris1089, oats, Dolan, and occasionally SirCallen, gibson, Horsemen, cometk, Amsel, Xellee, GS, lejend and a few newer posters (sry I can't remember your names right now) have replied there. How did these offtopic regulars increase the level of flaming in the other sections of the forum and in the Twitch chat? Maybe you're thinking of users who post in the other subsection of the offtopic where the meme thread is.

If you're thinking about the recent threads in which incog, diarouga, commissar and a few others have clashed, those threads are not in the offtopic subsection where politics are usually discussed and these users are not really regulars in that politics subsection. So, I don't see how you identified that subsection as the source of any big issues on the rest of the site. No, posters who are regulars in politics threads in the offtopic have not made AOE3 maps worse, are not responsible for the state of the ESOC patch, have not increased flaming between players or in the Twitch chat and aren't involved much in the forum sections where AOE3 is discussed. So if you have a problem over there, it surely doesn't come from here. And again, it's weird you would complain about a section you don't even read or participate in.

[Shikari]

For me, I felt like there was a lot of elitism, snobiness, ego among players in the community.

[Kaiserklein]

Game and forums been kinda shit recently tbh, just not much fun anymore. I'd say I'm gonna do like Mitoe and just not really be around anymore (which I already do to some extent), but first have to see what DE can offer

[Hawk_Girl]

This forum is meant to be for age of empires 3 related discussion. I am very in favor of rules that limit other discussions out right on this forum.

I recently learned something great about hobbies that I never realized. They serve as levers for people of different backgrounds and points of view. When we play age of empires 3 it doesn’t matter which country you are from, it doesn’t matter what your religious or political views are either. We are all here to engage in an equal footing in age of empires 3. Whether that is playing competitively or just having a fun game with friends, you can relate and form new friendships with people outside the stress of real issues. This holds true for sports as well, you can be in a casual adult football league regardless of your income or social status and everyone is instantly able to bond over that common hobby.

When this forum allows people to discuss other issues and allows people to personally attack each other it strips away the benefit of AOE3 as a hobby. That leads to decline in the community for those who want to enjoy the hobby.

I think if you look closely the people who are advocating "free speech" don't even play the game anymore. Those other conversations can be had somewhere else and the community will thrive more without the conversations and agitation.

What should be done?
1. Update the rules to clearly limit these types of discussions
2. Be more consistent in the application of forum rules and act quickly
3. Hold staff to a higher level of accountability to the rules

This was well put and made me reconsider alot. Having a hobby like this unite people from all walks of life is definately true and a good thing, so I think I've changed my mind. There is definately some value to keep that uniting force of the hobby.

[evilcheadar]

Just delete politics based off topic, it's not needed

it is needed