Discussion about off-topic & forum rules

[evilcheadar]

Imagine thinking removing off topic will stop diarouga from flaming the EP

[chris1089]

I think @Dolan is spot on. The off topic blame is a scapegoat that isn't the cause.

[Black_Duck]

For me, I felt like there was a lot of elitism, snobiness, ego among players in the community.

Mate youre known for going onto ep and flaming hugely when you lose

[aaryngend]

I think @Dolan is spot on. The off topic blame is a scapegoat that isn't the cause.

You are forgetting one thing: Off Topic animosities are carrying over to the normal discussion.
No one is asking for the removal of Off Topic, they just want to regulate it more, same as pretty much the whole forum.
They also want to enforce a more positive attitude when posting, no more hate speech or personal attacks or vendettas against other members.

Basically remove stuff that gets on peoples nerves and that makes them quit.
This community is still mainly about Age of Empires III.

[chris1089]

I think @Dolan is spot on. The off topic blame is a scapegoat that isn't the cause.

You are forgetting one thing: Off Topic animosities are carrying over to the normal discussion.
No one is asking for the removal of Off Topic, they just want to regulate it more, same as pretty much the whole forum.
They also want to enforce a more positive attitude when posting, no more hate speech or personal attacks or vendettas against other members.
Basically remove stuff that gets on peoples nerves and that makes them quit.
This community is still mainly about Age of Empires III.

Which animosities? I'm yet to see anyone provide evidence of such a link.

[aaryngend]

Which animosities? I'm yet to see anyone provide evidence of such a link.

Are you for real now? There are enough people who hate the guts of someone else here and won't let any opportunity pass to get back at each other
There are milder examples like me and Mr. "I've never flamed anyone" aka Astaroth or a stronger example such as diarouga and Incog.
Gotta say, diarouga really stepped up and improved his behaviour bigtime, stopped continuing the drama with Incog.
Meanwhile Incog was still muttering about random insults and flames here and there in every couple of posts targeted at 'rouga. No bueno man, we all know you can do better.

Back on topic:
Stop focusing too much on Off Topic and the fight for its existence, the points made in this thread about the grievances people hold here don't only pertain to that subset of the forum. The perceived general bigotry and negativity are the main problems here. That includes Twitch chat too, as some people said. As we all know, Twitch is neither this forum nor Off Topic.

[Dolan]

You are forgetting one thing: Off Topic animosities are carrying over to the normal discussion.

Which animosities are getting carried over from the real-life offtopic section to other parts of the AOE3 forums? Barely anyone from that offtopic subsection posts outside of it, I know I very rarely do, and so do other regulars I mentioned. We need to get more specific. Look, the offtopic section of the forum has 2 subforums:


The section where politics are discussed is the second one, it says right there in the description. Which conflicts from this section were carried over outside of it? And how did they cause whatever this topic is about?

@aaryngend I think you are talking about the ESOC Talk subforum of the offtopic section. That subforum is not for political threads, it's for ESOC memes, banter, general ESOC gossip stuff. Don't lump us with that subforum, because we have different regulars in the Real-life Discussion subforum.

[Good ol Ivan]

Which animosities? I'm yet to see anyone provide evidence of such a link.

Stop focusing too much on Off Topic and the fight for its existence, the points made in this thread about the grievances people hold here don't only pertain to that subset of the forum. The perceived general bigotry and negativitiy is the main problem here. That includes Twitch chat too, as some people said. As we all know, Twitch is neither this forum nor Off Topic.

I think the issue here the boomers aren't considering is that "bigotry and negativity" sometimes is just banter. I understand that drawing a line is hard, because some people just don't like bantering in certain ways and will get offended, but that is specifically the issue - instead of bowing down to every wimp's demands, explain them sometimes it's just friendly banter and they should also try to be more tolerant of it.
Ever been to a sports match IRL? Ever been in a stadium?
At first glance every supporter of team A seems to be rude to members and supporters of team B, but that's just part of what makes the environment so fun.
My point is there should be a delicate balance between banter and hate. If you think all hate is banter, then the environment will be incredibly hostile, which will be offputting to many people, specially newcomers. But if you think all banter is hate, then you are just killing the fun.

[Black_Duck]

Which animosities? I'm yet to see anyone provide evidence of such a link.

Stop focusing too much on Off Topic and the fight for its existence, the points made in this thread about the grievances people hold here don't only pertain to that subset of the forum. The perceived general bigotry and negativitiy is the main problem here. That includes Twitch chat too, as some people said. As we all know, Twitch is neither this forum nor Off Topic.

I think the issue here the boomers aren't considering is that "bigotry and negativity" sometimes is just banter. I understand that drawing a line is hard, because some people just don't like bantering in certain ways and will get offended, but that is specifically the issue - instead of bowing down to every wimp's demands, explain them sometimes it's just friendly banter and they should also try to be more tolerant of it.
Ever been to a sports match IRL? Ever been in a stadium?
At first glance every supporter of team A seems to be rude to members and supporters of team B, but that's just part of what makes the environment so fun.
My point is there should be a delicate balance between banter and hate. If you think all hate is banter, then the environment will be incredibly hostile, which will be offputting to many people, specially newcomers. But if you think all banter is hate, then you are just killing the fun.

Theres context to calling an opposition fan a knob at a football match. Using a racial slur on a forum about a game just makes you a penis, full offence, not banter.

[Good ol Ivan]

Theres context to calling an opposition fan a knob at a football match.

Guess you never been to a football match irl then lol.

Using a racial slur on a forum about a game just makes you a penis, full offence, not banter.

I disagree. Well it depends on the situation too, but whatever.
I never said that racial slurs should be completely allowed though. I literally just said that if you excuse all hate as banter then the environment will get very hostile, but if you cross out all banter as hate then it's gonna be incredibly boring.

[Mitoe]

Seems like this thread might be making things worse. Shouldn't have made it, sorry everyone.

I never said that racial slurs should be completely allowed though.

Racial slurs should not be allowed, period. I don't see any reason why they should be. Even if someone's intent was to be funny it's completely the wrong way to go about it and the humour will not be there for everyone.

[Riotcoke]

Why do people have to bring up the same shitty topic in racism in half the threads, it's getting so tiring.

[Good ol Ivan]

Why do people have to bring up the same shitty topic in racism in half the threads, it's getting so tiring.

Don't look at me.

[Hawk_Girl]

Which animosities? I'm yet to see anyone provide evidence of such a link.

Stop focusing too much on Off Topic and the fight for its existence, the points made in this thread about the grievances people hold here don't only pertain to that subset of the forum. The perceived general bigotry and negativitiy is the main problem here. That includes Twitch chat too, as some people said. As we all know, Twitch is neither this forum nor Off Topic.

I think the issue here the boomers aren't considering is that "bigotry and negativity" sometimes is just banter. I understand that drawing a line is hard, because some people just don't like bantering in certain ways and will get offended, but that is specifically the issue - instead of bowing down to every wimp's demands, explain them sometimes it's just friendly banter and they should also try to be more tolerant of it.
Ever been to a sports match IRL? Ever been in a stadium?
At first glance every supporter of team A seems to be rude to members and supporters of team B, but that's just part of what makes the environment so fun.
My point is there should be a delicate balance between banter and hate. If you think all hate is banter, then the environment will be incredibly hostile, which will be offputting to many people, specially newcomers. But if you think all banter is hate, then you are just killing the fun.

Its fun for the hardcore supporters at the arena but it definately makes families with children way less likely to want to go to games. Why do you need to be a dick to people to talk about real issues?

[007Salt]

I thought racism was cured when we elected our first orange president... I guess I was wrong

[Good ol Ivan]

Show hidden quotes

Which animosities? I'm yet to see anyone provide evidence of such a link.

Stop focusing too much on Off Topic and the fight for its existence, the points made in this thread about the grievances people hold here don't only pertain to that subset of the forum. The perceived general bigotry and negativitiy is the main problem here. That includes Twitch chat too, as some people said. As we all know, Twitch is neither this forum nor Off Topic.

I think the issue here the boomers aren't considering is that "bigotry and negativity" sometimes is just banter. I understand that drawing a line is hard, because some people just don't like bantering in certain ways and will get offended, but that is specifically the issue - instead of bowing down to every wimp's demands, explain them sometimes it's just friendly banter and they should also try to be more tolerant of it.
Ever been to a sports match IRL? Ever been in a stadium?
At first glance every supporter of team A seems to be rude to members and supporters of team B, but that's just part of what makes the environment so fun.
My point is there should be a delicate balance between banter and hate. If you think all hate is banter, then the environment will be incredibly hostile, which will be offputting to many people, specially newcomers. But if you think all banter is hate, then you are just killing the fun.

Its fun for the hardcore supporters at the arena but it definately makes families with children way less likely to want to go to games. Why do you need to be a dick to people to talk about real issues?

Why is that a problem, there's lots of things you can do with your family. You don't need to bring them to a football match if they hate the banter.

When a piece of media was originally aimed for a specific audience and you intend to turn it enjoyable for all audiences, chances are you will make lots of people unhappy. If you remove banter from football matches, not only are you going to have a bad time, chances are your wife and your daughter will have a bad time anyways because all they wanted was to watch a movie with you and you took them to watch a damn football game. Or imagine this pub you liked going to with your pals, and then it suddenly turns into a family restaurant. You just won't have a good time anymore.
Instead of trying to make it nicer for the people who don't enjoy it, make it nicer for the people who do enjoy it!

In a way this applies twitch as well - you aren't going to watch an AoE3 stream with your Christian aunt. Why is it so bad let the people who do enjoy it have fun?

[Hawk_Girl]

Show hidden quotes

Which animosities? I'm yet to see anyone provide evidence of such a link.

Stop focusing too much on Off Topic and the fight for its existence, the points made in this thread about the grievances people hold here don't only pertain to that subset of the forum. The perceived general bigotry and negativitiy is the main problem here. That includes Twitch chat too, as some people said. As we all know, Twitch is neither this forum nor Off Topic.

I think the issue here the boomers aren't considering is that "bigotry and negativity" sometimes is just banter. I understand that drawing a line is hard, because some people just don't like bantering in certain ways and will get offended, but that is specifically the issue - instead of bowing down to every wimp's demands, explain them sometimes it's just friendly banter and they should also try to be more tolerant of it.
Ever been to a sports match IRL? Ever been in a stadium?
At first glance every supporter of team A seems to be rude to members and supporters of team B, but that's just part of what makes the environment so fun.
My point is there should be a delicate balance between banter and hate. If you think all hate is banter, then the environment will be incredibly hostile, which will be offputting to many people, specially newcomers. But if you think all banter is hate, then you are just killing the fun.

Its fun for the hardcore supporters at the arena but it definately makes families with children way less likely to want to go to games. Why do you need to be a dick to people to talk about real issues?

Why is that a problem, there's lots of things you can do with your family. You don't need to bring them to a football match if they hate the banter.

When a piece of media was originally aimed for a specific audience and you intend to turn it enjoyable for all audiences, chances are you will make lots of people unhappy. If you remove banter from football matches, not only are you going to have a bad time, chances are your wife and your daughter will have a bad time anyways because all they wanted was to watch a movie with you and you took them to watch a damn football game. Or imagine this pub you liked going to with your pals, and then it suddenly turns into a family restaurant. You just won't have a good time anymore.
Instead of trying to make it nicer for the people who don't enjoy it, make it nicer for the people who do enjoy it!

In a way this applies twitch as well - you aren't going to watch an AoE3 stream with your Christian aunt. Why is it so bad let the people who do enjoy it have fun?

It sounds wierd to let some people make other people unhappy in order to make the first people happy. The reason football for example is a great global sport is that people from all over the world and all walks of life likes it. I've always been into sports but remember as a kid feeling uncomfortable because drunk people screaming bad shit to everyone. And if you argue that that type of banter is what makes it fun, then you in fact do not like the sport (or in this case age of empires 3 the asian dynasties) as much as the others. Just enjoy it and be respectful man.

I'm not saying let's mod everything. I'm saying don't be toxic without reason, it's not cool to take fun off of everyone else. You probably will continue to do so anyway becasue that seems to be who you are, but I think it's bad.

[Robb_Killer]

Lol everyone is looking for itself or pointing fingers. Big yikes. Thank you for China guide Sir.

[Shikari]

For me, I felt like there was a lot of elitism, snobiness, ego among players in the community.

Mate youre known for going onto ep and flaming hugely when you lose

"Known"

[caleb15]

Can't we all just be nice to each other?

[gibson]

Seems like common sense that racial slurs shouldn't be allowed tbh ngl

[Squamiger]

i feel like something changed on these forums when DE was announced. prior to that, the forums and the community were focused internally-- skill and reputation were very important, and everyone was focused on who was going to win the next seasonal tournament. The community itself was the be all, end all of AoE3; there was nothing outside the community. If you were a jerk or a cheater there were actual real stakes to that, and you would be treated so

But now with DE, it all matters so much less. The stakes around being a good player or even just being likeable and respectful are just so, so low. What's the point? If you piss some people off, you can just change your username with DE. Whats the point of even trying to do well in game, when none of the ladders will matter in a month? Even if the game stays basically the same with DE, there is no doubt that its release will shake up the community to some degree. Things will change, and I think people already sense that. These forums will likely become less relevant when there is a massive influx of new players. My theory is that all the vitriol on here lately is a reaction to subconsciously feeling like these forums have less control and less importance within aoe3 than before.

but yes also please just ban racial slurs and ban nazis

[voigt1240]

Just feels like People Are overblowing this and making it into a bigger issue than it really is. Just implement stricter rules. ban racial and personal attacks.

[Good ol Ivan]

It sounds wierd to let some people make other people unhappy in order to make the first people happy

Yeah!

The reason football for example is a great global sport is that people from all over the world and all walks of life likes it.

Ofc, but like in everything certain demographics are inclined to like it more than others.
Sure there's plenty of women who enjoy playing and watching football, and call it a stereotype if you like, but it is a fact that there are more men who enjoy watching football than wemen.

I've always been into sports but remember as a kid feeling uncomfortable because drunk people screaming bad shit to everyone.

Well yeah, as a kid you play with other kids or watch the game in your T.V. with your dad.
If you go to a big a game chances are you won't enjoy the banter of grown drunk men screaming around, doesn't mean it's something that has to change. There's a place where everyone can have fun, but trying to make a place fun and enjoyable for literally everyone just can't work.

And if you argue that that type of banter is what makes it fun, then you in fact do not like the sport (or in this case age of empires 3 the asian dynasties) as much as the others.

That's a pretty bold claim to make. You can enjoy playing the sport and not enjoy the banter, fair enough, but it doesn't mean others do not like the sport just because they enjoy the environment.
Actually I myself prefer to play the AoE3 instead of watching others play it, but it doesn't mean the twitch community is awful because they enjoy to banter as they watch the game. I don't know how you can enjoy watching a game without some banter tbh.

I'm not saying let's mod everything. I'm saying don't be toxic without reason, it's not cool to take fun off of everyone else.

Yeah, here I agree. Just saying banter isn't a bad thing, and people here seem to get annoyed way too easy at the slightest offense. That is far more toxic than a bit of banter by itself.

You probably will continue to do so anyway becasue that seems to be who you are, but I think it's bad.

Not necessarily, I would say you have to be pretty damn annoying and obnoxious for me to bully you.

[helln00]

Not quite, you have to be a particularly annoying person for me to bully you.

I mean you probably shouldnt bully people regardless of how annoying they are but that's just me I guess