Discussion about off-topic & forum rules

[deleted_user]

sometimes people say it's not goodbye, but it'sh actually goodbye.

[Good ol Ivan]

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The Word '' rape'' itself is not bad. It is how it is used. Victor_swe raped me a few weeks ago with his India.

Do you think that people who've experienced rape would have your same point of view?

I do feel for rape victims, but Surely we can't go around silencing the dictionary.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape

This is the definition of the word. Rape means one thing only and you never know who had to go through it and people don't like to be reminded of it.

So you are saying being reminded people who had to go through that experience is equivalent of being Pakistani?
Okay, sorry, that was very inappropriate. But it genuinely makes no sense to me how you people think both situations are equivalent.
The person in question might have had very rough personal experiences. But he was also telling other people to shut up, dismissed their arguments, personally mocked me, and called Diarouga an idiot before I even used that word.
My point being that you can't expect people to treat you with respect when you aren't being respectful to other posters yourself. He didn't say "please don't say that, you are being hurtful". This was his first take on the subject: "You just called me a Paki and you say aren't racist? Hahaha You idiot". Not exactly a request.
Then he said

I hope you (Diarouga) can commit yourself to learning more about the sensitivities of race and the impact your words and actions might have. I saw in another thread that you had referred to black people with the N word. If you had done that in the US in front of a few black people, you might not have made it out alive. It is that hurtful and offensive. Its the same with words like Paki.

In the first sentence was very passive-aggressive about it, whereas the second sounded almost like a threat if you ask me. Nonetheless, after he said that I didn't use that word again anyway. I really can't see how you people think I crossed the line, but this guy gets a green light for being obnoxious.

[Good ol Ivan]

It's the third time that I say that you can't excuse every shitty thing you do or say as banter.

haha we don't even see the irony, i love it

You aren't very bright are you?
I never said what I did was "just banter", did I?
I'm totally aware that what I said was rude and crass. And I'm not objecting it.

[Good ol Ivan]

trying to make a place fun and enjoyable for literally everyone just can't work.

You're right. Making a place that's welcoming and respectful for others is impossible if you're also making it a place where people can attack and offend others (what you're calling banter).

Look, I don't really know you, but I did read the thread where you were banned. Some of the things you wrote were fine, but when you intentionally used a word that someone said was offensive...shit's fucked up man. Of course some people can "take it". But the onus should not be on them to just take it considering that they have had to deal with it for much of their life.

Let me give you a quick example with my experiences. There's been a few members on here who use(d) the word "rape" a lot. It triggers me pretty hard to see it used flippantly. I shared this with some members and while they still didn't understand what the big deal was, they are/were respectful enough to try to limit their usage of the word, particularly when I'm around. It would've been extremely fucked up if, after I shared this with them, they would've responded with something like "fuck you bitch, get raped. I rape all noobs. I raped lots of people in my games last night. I'm raping people now." This is basically what you did to @comradecommissar

That sort of speech is, quite frankly, intolerable to me because it's moving from simply discussing something to purposely trying to hurt someone who has already been hurt. Sure, you can say "grow thicker skin". But how much nicer would the world be if we all just tried our best to show love, compassion, and respect to one another.

Oh boy, here we go again.
Cba to repeat myself every third post so I will just quote myself here:

After I told him to consider leaving the country he lived in if he disliked everyone around so much, personal insults ensued (the OP didn't address my point and just said that I was a loser because he was working on his PhD), and only then I intentionally used the slur in question to piss him off. I would like to point out that I never threatened him, didn't use racial stereotypes, nor anything serious of the sort.
My intention was just to belittle him a little using the least offensive slur I could come up with after he tried to belittle me and everyone else in the thread.
But somehow, almost everyone is still focused on how wrong it was for me to throw that slur in the argument, even though I did it only after he began personally insulting me himself.

I don't think that being called with a slur that's literally the diminutive form of his nationality is that big of a deal. And if his intention was to have a civil discussion he shouldn't have acted the way he did.

[comradecommissar]

I feel like the comments really proved the point @Mitoe was making. Im not going to address the personal attacks being made against me again. Everyone can go read the thread and see what happened, and what prompted me to say what I did. There's a reason one user was banned and others weren't.

[voigt1240]

[007Salt]

Show hidden quotes

The Word '' rape'' itself is not bad. It is how it is used. Victor_swe raped me a few weeks ago with his India.

Do you think that people who've experienced rape would have your same point of view?

I do feel for rape victims, but Surely we can't go around silencing the dictionary.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rape

This is the definition of the word. Rape means one thing only and you never know who had to go through it and people don't like to be reminded of it.

So you are saying being reminded people who had to go through that experience is equivalent of being Pakistani?
Okay, sorry, that was very inappropriate. But it genuinely makes no sense to me how you people think both situations are equivalent.
The person in question might have had very rough personal experiences. But he was also telling other people to shut up, dismissed their arguments, personally mocked me, and called Diarouga an idiot before I even used that word.
My point being that you can't expect people to treat you with respect when you aren't being respectful to other posters yourself. He didn't say "please don't say that, you are being hurtful". This was his first take on the subject: "You just called me a Paki and you say aren't racist? Hahaha You idiot". Not exactly a request.
Then he said "I hope you (Diarouga) can commit yourself to learning more about the sensitivities of race and the impact your words and actions might have. I saw in another thread that you had referred to black people with the N word. If you had done that in the US in front of a few black people, you might not have made it out alive. It is that hurtful and offensive. Its the same with words like Paki."
In the first sentence was very passive-aggressive about it, whereas the second sounded almost like a threat if you ask me. Nonetheless, after he said that I didn't use that word again anyway. I really can't see how you people think I crossed the line, but this guy gets a green light for being obnoxious.

Did you quote the right person?

[Good ol Ivan]

Did you quote the right person?

Yeah mb thought I was quoting @XeeleeFlower

[Good ol Ivan]

Seriously why can't you guys stick to one thread this is getting so tiring

Don't look at me, I didn't bring it up.
People just love bringing the topic up no matter what I do or say.
It's the mod(s)' fault though. The other two threads got locked, so it's kinda inevitable that the discussion ends up reaching somewhere else. Actually this is the only thread left where the topic is being discussed. For now.

[deleted_user]

Seriously why can't you guys stick to one thread this is getting so tiring

Don't look at me, I didn't bring it up.
People just love bringing the topic up no matter what I do or say.
It's the mod(s)' fault though. The other threads got locked, so it's kinda inevitable that the discussion ends up reaching somewhere else.

just ban lol

[Good ol Ivan]

Seriously why can't you guys stick to one thread this is getting so tiring

Don't look at me, I didn't bring it up.
People just love bringing the topic up no matter what I do or say.
It's the mod(s)' fault though. The other threads got locked, so it's kinda inevitable that the discussion ends up reaching somewhere else.

just ban lol

What did I say now, though?

[deleted_user]

Everything lol did you think I didn't vindicate?

[Good ol Ivan]

Everything lol did you think I didn't vindicate?

What?

[Sargsyan]

cuck

[Goodspeed]

I never said that racial slurs should be completely allowed though.

Racial slurs should not be allowed, period. I don't see any reason why they should be. Even if someone's intent was to be funny it's completely the wrong way to go about it and the humour will not be there for everyone.

This isn't actually disputed. He was banned for it, in case you didn't know.

[Goodspeed]

You are forgetting one thing: Off Topic animosities are carrying over to the normal discussion.

Which animosities are getting carried over from the real-life offtopic section to other parts of the AOE3 forums? Barely anyone from that offtopic subsection posts outside of it, I know I very rarely do, and so do other regulars I mentioned. We need to get more specific. Look, the offtopic section of the forum has 2 subforums:


The section where politics are discussed is the second one, it says right there in the description. Which conflicts from this section were carried over outside of it? And how did they cause whatever this topic is about?

@aaryngend I think you are talking about the ESOC Talk subforum of the offtopic section. That subforum is not for political threads, it's for ESOC memes, banter, general ESOC gossip stuff. Don't lump us with that subforum, because we have different regulars in the Real-life Discussion subforum.

I remember trying to get staff to separate the two into different categories because I didn't agree that ESOC Talk is "Off topic" and we were seeing very little overlap in the people who posted in those forums. And of course this scapegoating was pretty predictable. The separation didn't happen, and indeed we're now seeing the two get lumped together even though they have very little to do with each other, for the sake of a false narrative.

I'd like to reiterate Dolan's question: Which animosities are getting carried over from the real-life offtopic section to other parts of the AOE3 forums?

Also, again, it's ridiculous that this became a discussion about off topic when the real problem is the generally high level of toxicity among AoE3 players. Frankly, it's disrespectful to the OP.

[Imperial Noob]

I hope this strawman tower defense is not a response to my posts.

I said ban politics, but it can be chosen whether on the entire forum, or if there can be a shadow corner, where all that is contained. Bad blood along the political lines I've witnessed most recently (twice) was not limited to some closed Offtop circuit of posters, and it drew more and more to join in over time. I want that to be banned.

You might have confused my intentions about offtop in this case [although I stand by my statement that a political forum is of little gain for the vast majority of the community] with me saying to be tougher on spammers, which are my personal peeve (and I am likely far from the only one) and who do feed on the existence of off-topic and venture out of it from time to time and into more general topics. I've seen that over the years.

These things will not control twitch sewage (there are some toxic twitch users who are probably not even present too much on the forums) or mad in-game behaviour, but they do work to improve the forums to make them more friendly for those who just want to discuss the game.

[chris1089]

Keep on topic. Respect what Mitoe wanted to talk about. If it's off topic find the corresponding thread or create a new one. Discuss ideas don't attack people.

[Goodspeed]

I hope this strawman tower defense is not a response to my posts.

It's a response to the scapegoating that's going on here. I don't remember if you took part in that, but no it's at least not a direct response to your posts.

[don_artie]

it's a mixture of funny and sad that this topic is turning into this.

@Mitoe Just wanna say that since 2005 I've always had periods where I play a lot and periods where I dont play. My last return to the game was about a year ago when you were doing commentary on games on the esoc stream. I really enjoyed it and mentioned that in the chat. You ended up whispering me which I thought was cool, roughly since then i've been playing more again .

I personally think that how life works is that if you have a day that is good for 95% of the time, but 5% of your day is a shit experience (for example some stranger on the street calls you names) generally speaking that 5% will feel 'stronger' and it can end up being a shitty day. It's hard to only focus on the good, but i'm sure I can speak for a lot of people here that think you're a cool dude. all the other nonsense just try to let it pass you by as much as you can

[pasha]

May i suggest ESOC disclaimer: All the topics discussed here does not relate to the real life and user opinions should not be taken seriously

[deleted_user]

That doesn't really make sense ngl

[Ashvin]

I'm chunfused.

[Papist]

I get that but nowadays it is impossible to not step on anyones toes. How far should we go in that regard? Films, music lyrics, lectures, general speech. It is a slippery slope. But i will stop using certain words if it is offensive .

I'm glad you brought up that last point. Not being an asshole is a concept that seems to elude a lot of people here. If someone says something is offensive, just don't say it to them again. Making it a point to use the word as much as possible or throwing a tantrum about speech policing just makes you sound like a childish asshole. If you desperately need that word to be a part of your vocabulary, just wait to use it until the person who's offended by it isn't around.

[aaryngend]

I remember trying to get staff to separate the two into different categories because I didn't agree that ESOC Talk is "Off topic" and we were seeing very little overlap in the people who posted in those forums. And of course this scapegoating was pretty predictable. The separation didn't happen, and indeed we're now seeing the two get lumped together even though they have very little to do with each other, for the sake of a false narrative.

I wouldn't call it scapegoating, some ideas, which are seperate, just got lumped together. You can't mix arguments from diffferent matters together. Many arguments only work for their intended purpose.

Also, again, it's ridiculous that this became a discussion about off topic when the real problem is the generally high level of toxicity among AoE3 players. Frankly, it's disrespectful to the OP.

Ye, I didn't want this to be an assault of the Off Topic section. Even if Off Topic and all its discussions didn't exist, Mitoe would probably feel the same. I don't know who started to make Off Topic the main enemy, Mitoe's grievances apply to the whole forum tbh.

I'd like to reiterate Dolan's question: Which animosities are getting carried over from the real-life offtopic section to other parts of the AOE3 forums?

Ye, Dolan asked me to give an example but alas, I cannot. I don't read the Off Topic forums so I don't know which discussions bleed over into other threads. What I DO know though is that once a topic is closed, chances are high that discussion continues in another thread... like the thread here. Mitoe made it to show what he dislikes in the community right now and it slowly became a thread about you know what again.
The other argument was to strongly limit or maybe even outright ban any political talk. Sitewide.