Discussion about off-topic & forum rules

[wardyb1]

Can we not do this again guys? Just walk away. No one is changing anyone else's mind here.

[gibson]

I guess we have a different opinion of far farther. He did nothing to you, you called him "pretty stupid for having a PHD", than called him a paki( this one I give you a pass for, I didn't know it was a slur myself) than went out of your way to call him a paki as many times as you possibly could in the same post after being told it was a slur. You were intentionally antagonistic for no reason. The only person who was even close to your level of toxicity was incog, but unsurprisingly you didn't resort to slurs with him or personal insults.

[gibson]

Can we not do this again guys? Just walk away. No one is changing anyone else's mind here.

Why? We're having polite conversation, and if Ivan at least considers that what he said previously was not appropriate and shouldn't have been said I'll consider it a win.

[Good ol Ivan]

I guess we have a different opinion of far farther. He did nothing to you, you called him "pretty stupid for having a PHD", than called him a paki( this one I give you a pass for, I didn't know it was a slur myself) than went out of your way to call him a paki as many times as you possibly could in the same post after being told it was a slur. You were intentionally antagonistic for no reason. The only person who was even close to your level of toxicity was incog, but unsurprisingly you didn't resort to slurs with him or personal insults.

I guess it was nothing personal, but he did say people should shut up if they care more for a balanced game than political correctness. He was very antagonistic to people he disagreed with, even if he didn't say anything personal yet.

Well yeah, he ignored what I said and tried to prove how smarter and more successful he was. Only then I said he was being stupid for someone with a PhD (I completely forget about that, mb).

And I just don't think all slurs are that serious, sorry. I do understand why someone would ask me to avoid the word rape (not that I ever used it), but I just don't think it's the same thing with slurs like Paki (not if used towards someone from Pakistan at least).
I can agree that I was being more antagonistic and inappropriate than he was, and that's about it. But I don't regret saying it and I still don't think it was that big of a deal.

[gibson]

Well its all a matter of perspective. In the grand scheme of things, in life, its obviously not a big deal at all. But if you want to be a part of a community you have to abide by the rules the community sets, that is not to be antagonistic, not to use racial slurs etc. So if you want to be a part of the community, it is a big deal. Half the community already thinks that you're a racist, and many more who don't may think twice about interacting with you, because if they disagree with you or if you feel slighted you might go off on them. Aoe3 is a hobby, the people here do it for fun, so if they think interacting with you won't be fun, they just might not do it. Also, you have to consider people's feelings. Many people online are like myself, you can say any insulting thing you want and I don't be bothered or offended, but not everyone can brush things off as easily. Now is it your responsibility to coddle everyone and make sure no ones feelings ever get hurt? Obviously not, but just behave like you would in real life. If you were out at a bar, or at work, or anywhere talking with someone and you refereed to them as a paki and they told you that was actually a slur, would you call them a paki 6 times in the next sentence? No you wouldn't, so don't do that here.

[fightinfrenchman]

Being a holocaust denier is bad. Sorry if this is controversial

[aaryngend]

Mods, now is your time to shine. You either tempban people like fightingfrenchman and Good ol Ivan, telling them they can't continue their nonsense or things are getting ridiculous here.

They are the perfect example of inconvincible trolls. Please just lock this thread already.

[fightinfrenchman]

Mods, now is your time to shine. You either tempban people like fightingfrenchman and Good ol Ivan, telling them they can't continue their nonsense or things are getting ridiculous here.

They are the perfect example of inconvincible trolls. Please just lock this thread already.

Lol I was just banned for a week. Why are you calling for me to be banned and not the other people who have posted in this thread for the past week?

[aaryngend]

Mods, now is your time to shine. You either tempban people like fightingfrenchman and Good ol Ivan, telling them they can't continue their nonsense or things are getting ridiculous here.

They are the perfect example of inconvincible trolls. Please just lock this thread already.

Lol I was just banned for a week. Why are you calling for me to be banned and not the other people who have posted in this thread for the past week?

Cause you seemingly didn't improve your behaviour. You continue where you left off.

[fightinfrenchman]

Mods, now is your time to shine. You either tempban people like fightingfrenchman and Good ol Ivan, telling them they can't continue their nonsense or things are getting ridiculous here.

They are the perfect example of inconvincible trolls. Please just lock this thread already.

Lol I was just banned for a week. Why are you calling for me to be banned and not the other people who have posted in this thread for the past week?

Cause you don't improve your behaviour. You continue where you left off.

Explain to me why I was banned initially

[Good ol Ivan]

Well its all a matter of perspective. In the grand scheme of things, in life, its obviously not a big deal at all. But if you want to be a part of a community you have to abide by the rules the community sets, that is not to be antagonistic, not to use racial slurs etc. So if you want to be a part of the community, it is a big deal. Half the community already thinks that you're a racist, and many more who don't may think twice about interacting with you, because if they disagree with you or if you feel slighted you might go off on them.

People who would refuse to talk to me because of something like that aren't that important to me honestly, I don't need them to like me. I would rather have fun talking with the few people who agree with me than dozens of obnoxious people obsessed with pc culture. Even so, after 'the incident', many people seem very eager to talk with me for whatever reason.

Also, you have to consider people's feelings. Many people online are like myself, you can say any insulting thing you want and I don't be bothered or offended, but not everyone can brush things off as easily.

I already talked about this a few pages ago.
If he had politely asked me not to say it and didn't act so snobbish, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. Nope, he wanted to single out 'the racists'. He didn't want to engage with people whose opinions differed from his own, he wanted to shun whoever didn't agree with all the progressive bollocks he was pushing and he was very obnoxious about it.

but just behave like you would in real life. If you were out at a bar, or at work,

Admittedly not something I would say at work, but could be something I would say in a bar.
I am behaving like I behave in real life with my friends and acquittances, yes. Well, actually I'm very tame here. In real life I do use lots of slurs, but I mostly just do it as banter and mostly with people who I already know and can take it.

[gibson]

So you would rather just talk to people you agree with and and sit in your own little bubble than ever have your worldview challenged? I mean I guess that's understandable, that's what most people do.

In fact he was trying to engage with people whos opinions differed from him, going so far as to draw an example from his personal life to try to show that other people's perspectives might not be correct. Did he do a great job of it? Thats up to interpretation, but you're doing a lot of projecting about his behavior. Why would he engage with you politely? You personally insulted him and called him stupid, and according to you if he was polite to you he would have no self respect. You projected onto him a much "higher level of pcness" than he was actually displaying and you never once actually tried to engage with him. Heres your first post I saw of yours from that thread

It just shows they are brain washed into virtue signaling, tbh
Oh hey since I'm Canadian I just happen to know about the great opression of native americans dying to evil Europeans better than you Europeans do.
Nevermind that I'm 100% white myself but hey it's very cool and rad to shit on my heritage.

And heres your 2nd

What you don't realize is that some people just can't be reasoned with. They are way too stubborn and self-absorbed in their bullshit, like the Paki.
It's useless to argue with some people as they just won't admit they are wrong, because their entire world view is based on false assumptions.
It's like talking about calculus with someone who is convinced that 2 + 2 = 5. Or in this case, 2 + 2 = racism and opression.

And heres your 3rd

I told you to consider leaving your country if you feel so missunderstood, threatened, etc... Specially because your posts heavily implied you dislike everyone around you and you have been, supposedly, treated badly. Which can be interpreted as a genuine concern and advice. The tone might suggest otherwise, sure, but that's because you were acting very smug yourself in your past posts, suggesting that anyone who disagreed with you or your opinions is ignorant. Still not a personal attack tho.

Then you proceeded to tell me how your PhD in *unspecified* is proof of how you have achieved more than I ever did and ever will.
There's no way you can possibly say that wasn't personal.
Not that it offends me, but if you treat others around as you please and show no respect, don't expect others will treat you kindly.
Now, if I recall correctly, you said you'd leave this place because I hurt your feelings. Yet here you are. Replying to me.

Which leads me to think you are either masochistic or a liar desperate for attention, you need to convince everyone you are the victim and being treated badly, nevermind you don't seem to have a problem mocking other people.

Grow up, man up. Admit you were (are) acting like a child, and I will readily admit and apologize for being a racist cunt.

He made a genuine effort to express his point of view. You came in crying about people being pc and hurling insults, not trying to make arguments or have discussion, so can you understand why he wasn't eager to genuinely engage with you? Thats the difference between you and in him in this thread. He made an honest effort to express his point of view, however correct or incorrect it may have been. You never did.

[Good ol Ivan]

So you would rather just talk to people you agree with and and sit in your own little bubble than ever have your worldview challenged? I mean I guess that's understandable, that's what most people do.

Quite the opposite. I like talking with people that challenge my world view, I wouldn't be engaging with you otherwise. I just think the people who would rather ignore me because of something so silly just wouldn't do it for a good argument.

In fact he was trying to engage with people whos opinions differed from him, going so far as to draw an example from his personal life to try to show that other people's perspectives might not be correct.

Lol

Why would he engage with you politely? You personally insulted him and called him stupid, and according to you if he was polite to you he would have no self respect.

People can bad-mouth me all they want but I won't ignore their arguments. You don't have to be polite to express an opinion or to defend it. If they had attempted to argue me properly and not focus on their feelings, I would have apologized.

And here's your 3rd

And here's an entire thread you completely ignored
viewtopic.php?f=982&t=21394#p481213

[voigt1240]

So we can agree the groundfoundation of this toxic house is built on insults and narrowmindedness? Let's just talk nicely to eachother and be respectful of others views. Should not be that hard.

I still see people mocking ivan. (few pages ago) We should be bigger men and talk nicely to Ivan even if he doesn't always return the favor. He is a smart Guy. just because his opinions differ should not matter.

[gibson]

@Good ol Ivan Obviously I'm not intentionally ignoring that, if my goal here is to have a positive interaction with you what would I gain from intentionally ignoring that? I just didn't remember that there were multiple threads at that point, because it's wasn't a big deal to me. Anyway the point still stands, you never tried to have a good faith discussion. Now would he have reacted differently if you had? Who knows, but ultimately all you can control are your own actions. This is the exact same thing I told incog when he was going off on one of his rants. No matter how valid your point is, all calling someone a virtue signaler or pc whatever is going to do is reaffirm their stereotypes about you and they will completely miss whatever point you're trying to make. So again, it just comes down to are you trying to be a member of the community who can actually engage in meaningful discussion, or do you just want to live in a bubble with the people who already share your worldview. Even if you disagree with someone completely, engaging with them and at least attempting to see where they're at allows you to become a more "objective" person.

[edeholland]

Placeholder

[harcha]

i feel like i've been janitored into another dimension

[XeeleeFlower]

@edeholland Moving all the posts must've been such a pain in the ass. You deserve to be paid double for what you do.

[harcha]

if ede deserves to be paid double, ear deserves to be paid triple

[Rohbrot]

Why do i have the weird feeling that @harcha wont stop posting on esoc till trump will press the nuclear bomb button

[Good ol Ivan]

@Good ol Ivan Obviously I'm not intentionally ignoring that, if my goal here is to have a positive interaction with you what would I gain from intentionally ignoring that? I just didn't remember that there were multiple threads at that point, because it's wasn't a big deal to me. Anyway the point still stands, you never tried to have a good faith discussion. Now would he have reacted differently if you had? Who knows, but ultimately all you can control are your own actions. This is the exact same thing I told incog when he was going off on one of his rants. No matter how valid your point is, all calling someone a virtue signaler or pc whatever is going to do is reaffirm their stereotypes about you and they will completely miss whatever point you're trying to make. So again, it just comes down to are you trying to be a member of the community who can actually engage in meaningful discussion.

Alright. I guess I could try sounding more civil. I still think you (not specifically you, the general you) can have a meaningful argument even if your posts sound antagonistic, but I suppose my posting style may be repelling a few decent posters.

or do you just want to live in a bubble with the people who already share your worldview. Even if you disagree with someone completely, engaging with them and at least attempting to see where they're at allows you to become a more "objective" person.

I'm not sure where you get this idea. If I didn't want to engage with them I wouldn't have made any post confronting them.
I'm just saying why'd I be worried that some people would like to avoid talking to me?
If they avoid me now it's pretty unlikely I would be able to convince them on anything in any other situation anyway, so I don't see it as a lose.

[SquidTheSid]

ITT: Bigots pretending that they're not racist.

[edeholland]

ITT: Closeted bigots pretending that they're not racist.

Comments like these, while probably meant to be humorous, won't help steer the discussion in a positive direction but will divide users even further.

Like I said before, we don't want to lock a thread but rather moderate the users and posts abusing the thread instead, so we will be watching this thread closely and remove any posts that don't contribute to a civil discussion. We will also be going back in this thread to give a response to those who reported posts.

[Goodspeed]

@edeholland Considering threads are so often locked and later unlocked, maybe you should implement a site-wide rule to always give a reason (in the thread itself) for why the thread was locked. Would probably greatly reduce the amount of staff members that go "rogue" and lock threads willy nilly.

It's also just a great rule that should be common sense to everyone but apparently isn't.

[edeholland]

I agree that would be a good rule.