Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

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chris1089 wrote:@XeeleeFlower no, gender means sex. The redefinition of this is not based in reality and is meaningless.
That definition is not based in reality and is meaningless imo
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

Post by chris1089 »

deleted_user wrote:
chris1089 wrote:@XeeleeFlower no, gender means sex. The redefinition of this is not based in reality and is meaningless.
That definition is not based in reality and is meaningless imo
That doesn't change the objective nature of what the word means, and that any other definition is a societal construct.
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

Post by Cometk »

No words have objective meaning lol they’re all social constructs what the fuck
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

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chris1089 wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
chris1089 wrote:@XeeleeFlower no, gender means sex. The redefinition of this is not based in reality and is meaningless.
That definition is not based in reality and is meaningless imo
any other definition is a societal construct.
correct (and that's a fine thing to be)
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

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:hehe:
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Post by fightinfrenchman »

chris1089 wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
chris1089 wrote:@XeeleeFlower no, gender means sex. The redefinition of this is not based in reality and is meaningless.
That definition is not based in reality and is meaningless imo
That doesn't change the objective nature of what the word means, and that any other definition is a societal construct.
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

Post by chris1089 »

Cometk wrote:No words have objective meaning lol they’re all social constructs what the fuck
Yes. But they are intended to communicate real things. Perhaps I would be clearer to say that the redefinition of gender here is to redefine it to describe an idea that is a social construct.
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

Post by Cometk »

chris1089 wrote:
Cometk wrote:No words have objective meaning lol they’re all social constructs what the fuck
Yes. But they are intended to communicate real things. Perhaps I would be clearer to say that the redefinition of gender here is to redefine it to describe an idea that is a social construct.
Accurate
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Post by fightinfrenchman »

chris1089 wrote:
Cometk wrote:No words have objective meaning lol they’re all social constructs what the fuck
Yes. But they are intended to communicate real things. Perhaps I would be clearer to say that the redefinition of gender here is to redefine it to describe an idea that is a social construct.
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

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Post by gibson »

Literally no one uses gender to mean sex. Gender is obviously a spectrum. Would you consider a muscular, hairy man with a deep voice to be more masculine than a small skinny hairless man with a high pitched voice? If the answer to this question is yes than you believe that gender is a spectrum. If you believe that no man is any more masculine than any other man, than you might not believe its a spectrum.
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Post by dansil92 »

i was gonna stay out of this but... yeah gender and sex aren't really equivalent, and it also varies between cultures too.
An example is cooking: some cultures consider this a feminine activity, others have a more equal view, and in some cultures professional chefs are almost exclusively male.
Sex is biological, largely binary but with outliers that are not irrelevant either. its a messy subject, but generally for most of us our societal perception is that gender is binary, even if individuals are not. while its an interesting topic of research, its deeply rooted in individual perceptions making most research papers somewhat emotionally charged and also has many conflicting results (like any other study in the soft sciences, tbh). makes it hard to get an objective take
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

Post by Jotunir »

Cometk wrote:
summarize it
Pay me and I will gladly do it ;)
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

Post by lejend »

chris1089 wrote:
lejend wrote:Got a new test for you

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https://www.idrlabs.com/4-axes/test.php
Is this what happens when you reject the creator - creation distinction and pretend that gender is not based in sex but based on whether you like cooking, cars, decorating or skin-care?
Pretty sure these indicators would not make any sense at all if you went to a bunch of Asian countries. You would need different indicators in different countries. Or maybe my gender changes depending on which country I am in?
It's just a dumb Internet quiz bro. No one actually thinks you can be 70% male and 30% female at the same time
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Post by fightinfrenchman »

Any quiz telling people on ESOC that they're normal in anyway is inherently flawed
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Gender theory : "sex differences are a social construction".
Also Gender theory : "if you like make-up and clothes, you are intrinsically female".
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Post by Cometk »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Gender theory : "sex differences are a social construction".
Also Gender theory : "if you like make-up and clothes, you are intrinsically female".
literally nobody says this
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Post by Goodspeed »

lejend wrote:
chris1089 wrote:
lejend wrote:Got a new test for you

Image

https://www.idrlabs.com/4-axes/test.php
Is this what happens when you reject the creator - creation distinction and pretend that gender is not based in sex but based on whether you like cooking, cars, decorating or skin-care?
Pretty sure these indicators would not make any sense at all if you went to a bunch of Asian countries. You would need different indicators in different countries. Or maybe my gender changes depending on which country I am in?
It's just a dumb Internet quiz bro. No one actually thinks you can be 70% male and 30% female at the same time
Depending on how you define those words, they do
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Post by XeeleeFlower »

There are inherent biological differences between most men and women. However, societal/cultural constructs dictate what are typical masculine/feminine traits. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.
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Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

XeeleeFlower wrote:There are inherent biological differences between most men and women. However, societal/cultural constructs dictate what are typical masculine/feminine traits. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.
I perfectly agree with that.
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Post by Jotunir »

XeeleeFlower wrote:There are inherent biological differences between most men and women. However, societal/cultural constructs dictate what are typical masculine/feminine traits. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.
Well, it is both culture and biology that together dictate what are masculine and feminine traits. Besides that I agree with you, there are inherent biological differences between most men and women.
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Post by RefluxSemantic »

XeeleeFlower wrote:There are inherent biological differences between most men and women. However, societal/cultural constructs dictate what are typical masculine/feminine traits. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.
I disagree with this. I think biological differences btween man and woman are generally what dictates the typical masculine and feminine traits. But the individual deviations are so large that on a person to person basis these typical traits dont have to be true. Just like how a man isnt necessarily taller than a woman, he is for example not necessatily more competitive or more into sports than a woman. But I do actually believe that on average these stereotypical masculine or feminine traits are generally accurate, and I believe that this is primarily based in nature and not nurture.

Afaik there isnt much evidence for nurture being the deciding factor here, which means that your post merely expresses an opinion, even though you make it sound like a fact.
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Post by XeeleeFlower »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
XeeleeFlower wrote:There are inherent biological differences between most men and women. However, societal/cultural constructs dictate what are typical masculine/feminine traits. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.
I disagree with this. I think biological differences btween man and woman are generally what dictates the typical masculine and feminine traits. But the individual deviations are so large that on a person to person basis these typical traits dont have to be true. Just like how a man isnt necessarily taller than a woman, he is for example not necessatily more competitive or more into sports than a woman. But I do actually believe that on average these stereotypical masculine or feminine traits are generally accurate, and I believe that this is primarily based in nature and not nurture.

Afaik there isnt much evidence for nurture being the deciding factor here, which means that your post merely expresses an opinion, even though you make it sound like a fact.
"Emotional" is a stereotypical feminine trait. However, men are just as emotional as women. It's how those emotions are expressed that is different. Boys are told " real men don't cry" and boys learn to hold back these very normal emotions. "Real men are tough". Boys learn to be aggressive. Crying and anger are both emotional responses. Girls learn that it's okay to cry, but not be angry. Boys learn that it's okay to be angry, but not okay to cry. Thus, women exhibit more, what are perceived to be, "emotional" responses to things than men because of how culture has shaped their development.
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Re: Poitical Compass Test and Political Typology Quiz

Post by RefluxSemantic »

XeeleeFlower wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:
XeeleeFlower wrote:There are inherent biological differences between most men and women. However, societal/cultural constructs dictate what are typical masculine/feminine traits. I don't understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.
I disagree with this. I think biological differences btween man and woman are generally what dictates the typical masculine and feminine traits. But the individual deviations are so large that on a person to person basis these typical traits dont have to be true. Just like how a man isnt necessarily taller than a woman, he is for example not necessatily more competitive or more into sports than a woman. But I do actually believe that on average these stereotypical masculine or feminine traits are generally accurate, and I believe that this is primarily based in nature and not nurture.

Afaik there isnt much evidence for nurture being the deciding factor here, which means that your post merely expresses an opinion, even though you make it sound like a fact.
"Emotional" is a stereotypical feminine trait. However, men are just as emotional as women. It's how those emotions are expressed that is different. Boys are told " real men don't cry" and boys learn to hold back these very normal emotions. "Real men are tough". Boys learn to be aggressive. Crying and anger are both emotional responses. Girls learn that it's okay to cry, but not be angry. Boys learn that it's okay to be angry, but not okay to cry. Thus, women exhibit more, what are perceived to be, "emotional" responses to things than men because of how culture has shaped their development.
These are not actually facts though. It's not clear to what extend nature is actually the driving factor for the differences between man and woman. I think you need to do a better job at acknowledging that this is simply your opinion. It's fine to have your opinion and I respect it, as long as you don't try to present your opinion as fact.

I don't really agree though. It's not that I don't want your opinion to be true. It's a convenient and pleasant truth that I would prefer: The only reason there are non-physical differences between men and women is because of how we raise our children and because of the expectation society has. It's convenient in many ways. Not only would that mean that by simply raising our children better and adapting our society we would remove all gender inequality, but it also assumes that man and woman are instrinsically equal. That's my preferred reality. I however don't really see the case for it. It's important to make the distinction between the truth you like and the truth that seems more probable. I fail at this all the time; For example, I believe that aoe4 will be a succesful game with a succesful launch, and I believe this because it's what I want to believe.

But when it comes to differences between men and women, it's not necessarily the case that what you're saying is true. It's very much possible that on average men are better at certain things and women are better at other things. Subconsciously, I then want to believe that these things cancel out; As much as men are better at x, women are equally better at y comparatively, or vice versa. The truth is that this is me projecting what I want to be true on what I believe to be true. In reality, there is a very real possibility that one gender simply is better at many things on average. It'd be an awfully inconvenient truth, but the truth does not care about our feelings.

The bottom line is that I want to point out that you're simply expressing an opinion. I wanted to warn you that your opinion might heavily be influenced by what you want to be true. It's what often happens to me and I sincerely hope you are right. But personally I don't really see how you would be right. I see too much evidence for a strong nature based difference between men and women. This is simply my opinion. You are free to disagree with me and believe what you want, but I hope you can respect my opinion and acknowledge that this is a valid opinion to have.

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