Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by callentournies »

75% of aoe3 micro is playing a musk civ and clicking forward after a volley, very exciting
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Malaysia Aizamk
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Post by Aizamk »

callentournies wrote:75% of aoe3 micro is playing a musk civ and clicking forward after a volley, very exciting
I think they should remove attack move. If there is no attack move, there cannot be any problems related to attack move. Games will not be lost because of attack move bugging, and everybody will be happy.
oranges.
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by aligator92 »

Aizamk wrote:
callentournies wrote:75% of aoe3 micro is playing a musk civ and clicking forward after a volley, very exciting
I think they should remove attack move. If there is no attack move, there cannot be any problems related to attack move. Games will not be lost because of attack move bugging, and everybody will be happy.
Aizamk part of Semi-FF gang? :ohmy:
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by princeofcarthage »

Its aizamks long play to be #1.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

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Post by RefluxSemantic »

InsectPoison wrote:
Pedrownage wrote:Of course, the "feature" that you had to grind and level up your homecity to get access to the better cards for your deck also ruined competitive multiplayer. They changed that later but the damage had already been done.
They changed it 15 years later... We got lucky with the XP mod
There were changes before that. When I started playing, you only needed to level up one city and at certain checkpoints all your other home cities would be at that level. Also homecities would start at level 10 instantly.

At release I believe each home city would start at level 1, and you had to level up each civilization individually. Which is far worse than what we ended up having until DE.
Sweden Zutazuta
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by Zutazuta »

Aizamk wrote:
callentournies wrote:75% of aoe3 micro is playing a musk civ and clicking forward after a volley, very exciting
I think they should remove attack move. If there is no attack move, there cannot be any problems related to attack move. Games will not be lost because of attack move bugging, and everybody will be happy.
@Victor_swe ?
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by helln00 »

Aizamk wrote:
callentournies wrote:75% of aoe3 micro is playing a musk civ and clicking forward after a volley, very exciting
I think they should remove attack move. If there is no attack move, there cannot be any problems related to attack move. Games will not be lost because of attack move bugging, and everybody will be happy.
tbh if they cant fix it might as well really, I am starting to get tired of attack move being so weird. Its almost like move attack rather then attack move
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by callentournies »

Aizamk wrote:
callentournies wrote:75% of aoe3 micro is playing a musk civ and clicking forward after a volley, very exciting
I think they should remove attack move. If there is no attack move, there cannot be any problems related to attack move. Games will not be lost because of attack move bugging, and everybody will be happy.
Great idea. Axe the mini map too.
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No Flag fightinfrenchman
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Add Pennsylvania as a new civ
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Sweden Victor_swe
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by Victor_swe »

Zutazuta wrote:
Aizamk wrote:
callentournies wrote:75% of aoe3 micro is playing a musk civ and clicking forward after a volley, very exciting
I think they should remove attack move. If there is no attack move, there cannot be any problems related to attack move. Games will not be lost because of attack move bugging, and everybody will be happy.
@Victor_swe ?
I suggested this for AS fan patch like 13 years ago. Finally a new player has arrived Who understand what this game needs.
Dead hunts cant walk....

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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by chronojj »

Mitoe wrote:
chronojj wrote: Personally, I think none of that would matter if micro wasn't invisible to spectators. Watching top players micro in games like SC2 and AoE2 can be mesmerizing sometimes, but in AoE3 50% of the micro can't even be seen by anyone other than the player performing it. Especially on DE, where you can only cast from recorded games which play at only about 80% of real time speed, the spectacle is really lacking.

I guess it doesn't help that most games in the recent meta are determined by build order, rather than mechanics. In the past I think this was less prevalent. It is probably because units have become less valuable compared to buildings and other defenses.
The fights are another thing that detract from aoe3 (compared to aoe2). As a player back in the day and simply watching now, it has always seemed like the battles are mostly just two armies being flung at each other with attack move, and whoever had the better comp going in wins. I never liked how ranged units worked (100% accuracy) and I feel like that removes some interesting game mechanics and micro. Most of the fights are just ranged vs ranged, with just a few melee cav tanking. In a way, the civs are over-complicated but the fighting is over-simplified.
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by dansil92 »

chronojj wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
chronojj wrote: Personally, I think none of that would matter if micro wasn't invisible to spectators. Watching top players micro in games like SC2 and AoE2 can be mesmerizing sometimes, but in AoE3 50% of the micro can't even be seen by anyone other than the player performing it. Especially on DE, where you can only cast from recorded games which play at only about 80% of real time speed, the spectacle is really lacking.

I guess it doesn't help that most games in the recent meta are determined by build order, rather than mechanics. In the past I think this was less prevalent. It is probably because units have become less valuable compared to buildings and other defenses.
The fights are another thing that detract from aoe3 (compared to aoe2). As a player back in the day and simply watching now, it has always seemed like the battles are mostly just two armies being flung at each other with attack move, and whoever had the better comp going in wins. I never liked how ranged units worked (100% accuracy) and I feel like that removes some interesting game mechanics and micro. Most of the fights are just ranged vs ranged, with just a few melee cav tanking. In a way, the civs are over-complicated but the fighting is over-simplified.
oh heck are you the real chronojj from aom?

on another note, i agree about the accuracy thing, keeping a unit running to draw archer fire while taking no damage itself is one of my favourite aom micro tricks that i cant use here
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by aligator92 »

We are playing a strategy game so if I manage to outthink my opponent and end up with a larger army or a better composition than my opponent because of that I should win. I should not lose because my opponent can click twice as fast as me and dodge all my units' attacks. So I prefer the fighting system of AoEe3
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by iron_turtle »

aligator92 wrote:dodge all my units' attacks.
This is also out thinking an enemy. It is called Real Time strategy for a reason. Countering just by a counterbuild sounds like turn based strategy.
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Post by aligator92 »

iron_turtle wrote:
aligator92 wrote:dodge all my units' attacks.
This is also out thinking an enemy. It is called Real Time strategy for a reason. Countering just by a counterbuild sounds like turn based strategy.
No it is not. There is no strategy or decision involved. You always want to dodge. Just not everyone has the APM and precision to do it. It is slightly different for units like Onagers in AoE2 that can attack areas instead of units but mostly there are no decisions to make.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Post by Goodspeed »

There are tactical decisions about how to approach a fight in a way that lets you use hill advantage or micro tricks more effectively than your opponent
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by Kaiserklein »

aligator92 wrote:We are playing a strategy game so if I manage to outthink my opponent and end up with a larger army or a better composition than my opponent because of that I should win. I should not lose because my opponent can click twice as fast as me and dodge all my units' attacks. So I prefer the fighting system of AoEe3
Not talking about aoe2 here, just generally speaking. Don't you think you deserve to lose if he clicks twice as fast? Unless you're twice as smart I guess
aligator92 wrote:No it is not. There is no strategy or decision involved. You always want to dodge. Just not everyone has the APM and precision to do it. It is slightly different for units like Onagers in AoE2 that can attack areas instead of units but mostly there are no decisions to make.
I'm sure it's the same as in aoe3, there's a part of micro which is pure mechanics and a part which requires taking decisions. For example splitting fire is literally always good if you have the apm for it, it's raw mechanics. But deciding to melee some units, to take a fight in some angle or some other, to pull your cav back or just keep fighting, to sack some units... It's a lot of decisions
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by aligator92 »

Kaiserklein wrote:Not talking about aoe2 here, just generally speaking. Don't you think you deserve to lose if he clicks twice as fast? Unless you're twice as smart I guess
No, I don't. Sure, mechanics will and should always help you. After all, you need a certain APM to even get your macro in decent shape but I think the ceiling for APM should be signigifcantly lower than the strategy ceiling. Especially if the mechanics allow you to break the counter system. There was this clip of somebody (I think Tabben) killing a falc with a single Jan because he managed to dodge the falcs shots. Great on him to figure out it is possible but I think these things should not exist.
Kaiserklein wrote:But deciding to melee some units, to take a fight in some angle or some other, to pull your cav back or just keep fighting, to sack some units... It's a lot of decisions
Completely agree with this. These are things that involve strategy and should be rewarded. And these are the things that show that AoE3 has a good amount of micro potential and is not just about attack moving. What I don't like is that some player will win a musk on musk fight because he is able to command 3 equally sized subgroups within a volley while the other player can only manage 2. Or break the counter system with APM.
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Post by Kaiserklein »

aligator92 wrote:No, I don't. Sure, mechanics will and should always help you. After all, you need a certain APM to even get your macro in decent shape but I think the ceiling for APM should be signigifcantly lower than the strategy ceiling.
Well then I think you're playing the wrong game, cause yeah it's real time strategy, and mechanics are just as important as strategy.
Besides the APM skill ceiling is naturally very high, so idk how it would be lower than the strategy one. No one can split fire perfectly for example, while at some point strategies only become rock / paper / scissor due to the lack of perfect scouting. Unless you want to play at 10x lower speed, I'm not sure how that could be helped.
aligator92 wrote:Especially if the mechanics allow you to break the counter system. There was this clip of somebody (I think Tabben) killing a falc with a single Jan because he managed to dodge the falcs shots. Great on him to figure out it is possible but I think these things should not exist.
That's just buggy behaviour from the falc, a bit like when you run your caravel around so that your opponent's isn't able to shoot at it. It's not a "mechanic". (also it's been known for a while, I remember games vs aiz where we'd do this to troll each other)
aligator92 wrote:Completely agree with this. These are things that involve strategy and should be rewarded. And these are the things that show that AoE3 has a good amount of micro potential and is not just about attack moving. What I don't like is that some player will win a musk on musk fight because he is able to command 3 equally sized subgroups within a volley while the other player can only manage 2. Or break the counter system with APM.
Well I really can't see what's wrong with that. If you have the same musk mass because your strategy is equally good, while having superior mechanics, it only makes sense that you win the fight. And if your opponent kites poorly with units that are supposed to kite, it only makes sense he loses the fight. I'm assuming it's actually possible to control your units properly, though.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by Goodspeed »

aligator92 wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Not talking about aoe2 here, just generally speaking. Don't you think you deserve to lose if he clicks twice as fast? Unless you're twice as smart I guess
No, I don't. Sure, mechanics will and should always help you. After all, you need a certain APM to even get your macro in decent shape but I think the ceiling for APM should be signigifcantly lower than the strategy ceiling. Especially if the mechanics allow you to break the counter system. There was this clip of somebody (I think Tabben) killing a falc with a single Jan because he managed to dodge the falcs shots. Great on him to figure out it is possible but I think these things should not exist.
Kaiserklein wrote:But deciding to melee some units, to take a fight in some angle or some other, to pull your cav back or just keep fighting, to sack some units... It's a lot of decisions
Completely agree with this. These are things that involve strategy and should be rewarded. And these are the things that show that AoE3 has a good amount of micro potential and is not just about attack moving. What I don't like is that some player will win a musk on musk fight because he is able to command 3 equally sized subgroups within a volley while the other player can only manage 2. Or break the counter system with APM.
You should try turn-based strategy games. I recommend go
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by aligator92 »

I like the quick thinking and reaction of AoE for fucks sake :D I just can't click 400 times per minute and am happy that in AoE3 it is not necessary to do so to get to a decent level. How does everybody misinterpret what I said to this degree?

@Goodspeed thanks for the recommendation. I do love strategic board games but for PC I prefer something more fast paced.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by Goodspeed »

I'm kidding tbh. I mean, I do recommend go but yeah.

Personally I liked AoE3's balance between the importance of mechanics and strategy. It's a shame the strategy factor was often diminished due to balance issues though
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Re: Next AoE2 Tourny $25K Weekend tourny

Post by speedflyer »

[quote="aligator92"] I just can't click 400 times per minute and am happy that in AoE3 it is not necessary to do so to get to a decent level.

That's actually one of the biggest problem in DE
I hope Zoi and his team of faithful minions can stop demonizing people

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