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Poland pecelot
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11 Jan 2019, 10:56

iwillspankyou wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:Who would you support then? Who have better policies, if any? The debate in USA are mostly about the candidate's appearances and personality, but very little about actual policy. Sanders is the exception, and that is why he is popular.


The debate is often about apperance and personality because those things impact electability.

iwillspankyou wrote:Why do you say he is an egomanical asshole? Is that your personal view, and what do you base it on?


Yes, this is my stating my personal opinion on him. The way he ran his 2016 campaign is what has convinced me of this; I think he did unnecessary damage to Clinton's reputation among his supporters which contributed to not enough people turning out to vote in 2016, leading to Trump's victory. I also think the fact that he is still an Independent rather than a member of the Democratic party is arrogant.

iwillspankyou wrote:About his age. He is one year older than Biden, and we NEVER hear that Biden is too old in mainstream media. It was also the argument when he ran in 2016, and at that time he was younger than Biden :?: Do you not think this is kind of odd, that the only thing they can hammer Sanders with is his age? Btw Sanders has been touring the country up and down, during the midterm election, like a Duracell Rabitt. I would like to see anyone, including much younger ppl, display the energy and commitment he has.


I don't really watch the news so I'm not sure about mentions about age in the mainstream media. Personally, I don't think old age is necessarily something that would make me not support a candidate, but it is something that makes me less likely to support Biden and also Sanders, regardless of their energy. That being said, Nancy Pelosi is 78 years old and I would love if she was president. The age argument has nothing to do with their ability to lead for me, so however much energy he has is irrelevant; to me, it's solely about electability.

iwillspankyou wrote:Sanders is not polling very well YOU CLAIM. Based on what exactly? Maybe you have other sources of info that I have?

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ll-770632/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/243539/ame ... nders.aspx
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story ... 312541002/

in other polls the picture are more mixed, BUT Sanders is always among the leading candidates.
https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/sto ... 348677002/

So please, mr @fightinfrenchman I would want you too give some evidence for your claims, cos that would elevate our discourse big time. :idea:


Image

There's nothing to indicate he could beat Joe Biden. I'm not even making the argument that Joe Biden could beat Trump, but Bernie couldn't even beat historically unpopular Hillary, so I don't see how he could beat Biden, or a newcomer who is going to gain in name recognition over the next several months.


The only reason that Sanders popularity surges from 4% to getting 46% of the votes during primaries, was his political views. The reason Clinton went down from 80% approval rate, to way under 50% (I cannot recall the specific figure), was her lack of policies, and that she almost took the voters for granted. Saying "I'm with Her" just isn't enough.
If ppl try to run bases on appearances and personality in 2020, they will soon find out, it just doesn't cut it anymore. :!: PPL are desperate for real change. That is also a fact why Hillary dropped like a rock; she ran for preserving the present, while change is needed.
Sanders have a lot of things going for him, but I would not say it is charisma or good looks ;)

You say Sanders could not even beat Clinton. I am pretty sure he would have, if DNC did not pull every dirty trick in the book, to undermine his campaign. And can you blame ppl that supported Sanders, to not be willing to support Clinton after that? If she had made a fair campaign and won that way, I am sure more of the Sanders supporters would also have supported her in the general election.

In Sanders and Clinton first debate during Primaries, Bernie Sanders, said the famous words "enough with the emails. I'm sick and tired of hearing about them, let us talk about the policies". So, it was not Sanders who dragged her through the mud with the email, if that is what you are referring to. But he did point out her big donations from Wall Street, and that she was not in support of a Singleplayer healthcare system. I would say, Clinton just did not have the right policies, and that is why she lost. You say Sanders is an egomanical asshole. I would say Clinton was, and still is. She and Bill got stinking rich from politics and kissing asses on Wall Street. Sanders, on the other hand, is the person with less wealth in the Senate, even though the media has tried to slander him about his cottage house.


About your statistics, I think Biden will sink like a rock, once he starts campaigning. I would say Biden is old, meaning he is out of touch about the conditions of poor and working class ppl, and millennials, and that he is living in the establishment bubble - not seing, not hearing, not empathising. See my post on it above.


how about we stop quoting large blocks of text? :flowers:
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No Flag umeu
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11 Jan 2019, 11:13

iwillspankyou wrote:
n0el wrote:No. I think Biden has some weird polling phenoma going which is skewing the data. Once people talk about him and his baggage, he will drop. So regardless, if you look at hypothetical matchups against Trump, only Biden and Bernie are favored against him in a swing state like North Carolina (Biden by 4, Bernie by 3). Warren is next best at a tie, and the rest of the moderates (Booker, Kamala, Beto, etc..) all lose.


Biden insulting millennial is not a smart chess move :hehe: short story:



here is how progressives will understand his insults:


By by Biden :!:


i would like to listen to it, but I just get an allergic reaction to American shows that pass for politics... I start getting reactions similar to a stroke, my body feels numb and i start drooling... it's bad. very bad...
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11 Jan 2019, 11:45

I like Jimmy Dore show, but you are free to not watch it @umeu
good post, very productive and enlightening btw :hmm:
We have saying, and you maybe have one in Netherland too, it goes like this; if you have nothing to say, don't say it here please :huh:
But then again, I think you have plenty of input to the thread, later on :P
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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11 Jan 2019, 12:03

Joe "I like kids more than people" Biden is a pedophile. Bet he owns a pizza chain as well!


Biden
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Poland pecelot
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11 Jan 2019, 14:39

confirmed
Le lion ne s'associe pas avec le cafard ! :food: :pop:
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United States of America n0el
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11 Jan 2019, 16:06

Goodspeed wrote:
n0el wrote:... but more importantly, he has the ability to energize the base and that is the only thing that matters.
The base is already energized though, right? By Trump

Not necessarily. If you look at the 2018 elections, it is clear to see that in races where the Republican candidate endorsed Trump (nearly all), the turnout for the progressive candidate was higher than the centrist.
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United States of America n0el
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11 Jan 2019, 16:09

Biden does have a #metoo problem. Once people start talking about that, his numbers will drop. Same with his voting record. Right now he’s associated with Obama on policies, but his record is not Obama, it is much worse.
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11 Jan 2019, 17:01

I'm sure Biden's numbers will go down when he's actually running, but there's nothing to suggest that Bernie could beat him still.
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11 Jan 2019, 17:13

fightinfrenchman wrote:I'm sure Biden's numbers will go down when he's actually running, but there's nothing to suggest that Bernie could beat him still.

I think you are very wrong, but you seem to prefer him over Sanders. Why? What is his politics, and what about it do you like?

And how about the other "top" candidates;
Just reading from CNBC that a lot of top Democrats are talking with Wallstreet, wanting them to fund them. I am talking about Cory Boker, Camala Harris and Kirsten Gillibrand, - there are others as well (say CNBC). I would think they will be called out for their association to Big Corp, and Wallstreet bonds.
I do not think candidates who are funded in this manner, have any hopes for getting elected.

POLITICS
Wall Street executives are hearing from Cory Booker, Kamala Harris and other Democrats as they gauge interest in possible 2020 presidential campaigns
Wall Street executives have heard from several potential 2020 Democratic candidates for president, including Sens. Cory Booker and Kamala Harris, as recently as last month.
Blackstone's Jonathan Gray, 32 Advisors' Robert Wolf, and Centerbridge Partners' Mark Gallogly are just a few of the Democratic financiers who have been engaging with possible candidates for president.
The revelation of communication between Wall Street donors and possible Democratic candidates threatens to exacerbate tension between liberal and moderate Democratic voters.
Brian Schwartz | @schwartzbCNBC
Published 11:15 AM ET Tue, 8 Jan 2019 Updated 12:21 PM ET Tue, 8 Jan 2019
CNBC.com




Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-NY, is reaching out to Wall Street executives to gauge potential support if she were to run for president in 2020, CNBC has learned.

Gillibrand has personally been working the phones and calling senior executives at Wall Street firms in recent weeks to see whether they would back her campaign if she jumps into the race, according to two senior business leaders who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Donors in the financial community helped back Gillibrand's successful re-election bid last year. Her effort to connect with business leaders this time comes as she contemplates entering what will likely be an expensive and protracted Democratic primary

quoted from CNBC 4 Jan 2019

Go figure
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11 Jan 2019, 17:29

I think it's good to take money from Wall Street
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11 Jan 2019, 17:33

fightinfrenchman wrote:I think it's good to take money from Wall Street


In case you are not just trolling, I would ask you why is that good?
About Bidens politics, you probably don't know yet, and neither do I. But if you do. please give some info about it.
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United States of America n0el
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11 Jan 2019, 17:59

He thinks its good to win, regardless of how you get there.
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11 Jan 2019, 18:03

iwillspankyou wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:I think it's good to take money from Wall Street


In case you are not just trolling, I would ask you why is that good?
About Bidens politics, you probably don't know yet, and neither do I. But if you do. please give some info about it.


It costs money to campaign. Also my preference for Biden over Bernie is that I think Biden is more electable, but still I'd prefer someone else like Beto or Any Klobuchar
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11 Jan 2019, 18:13

Guess you know that ppl will fund a candidate if they talk about politics ppl actually want ;) @fightinfrenshman
Remember Sanders? Think it was about 300 million he raised from small donations mostly - and average 27 dollars ;)
But we all know how it is, what money in politics is doing.



about Beto, he was kind of popular, saying he did not take corp donations, and he was talking about a public funded healthcare system for all. But then he suddenly had a change of heart, and started to take money from fossil fuel industry, and also stopped talking about single-payer healthcare. I think Beto will have a hard time defending this sudden change of heart. It could well be that Beto and Sanders are the last two man standing in the primaries (think they will both run) - so we shall see :biggrin:

You mention Amy Klobuchar, but I have to tell you, she is very in the shadow, but I had a look at her policies, and at first glance, they seem pretty good, but on second glance she is defending Obama care, wanting to improve it, Clinton Way! I think that is the wrong "medicine" right now.
But tbh I just took a look into her policies, after you mentioned her. Would think most USA voters do not know her very well if they know her at all :!:
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11 Jan 2019, 19:59

I also think she would be good because we should have a woman as president.
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11 Jan 2019, 20:05

@fightinfrenchman think policies are much more important than gender, race or both ;) If she wins it should be on her merits and her policies, and not her gender. I am not sure, but I feel that if a female candidate should arise with the arguments that the majority of the ppl think is good/fair, I think she will win. Hell, even in India they had a female prime minister 40 years ago ;)
Not saying its not hard to get power when you're a woman. But, gender just doesn't cut it for me like Clinton style; "I'm with her" :idea:

rewinding:
You had a black person cos he was talking about Change, but nothing really changed, did it?
Then, out of despair you elected a Businessperson, who def was not part of the establishment, that was even worse
Now you say, let's get a female/black person, or maybe both black and female, maybe that will work?
how about getting an old goat, with plenty of energy, that have had the same political stance for 4 decades, and has proven to be incorruptible? HOW ABOUT THEM APPLES :love: :love:
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11 Jan 2019, 21:23

iwillspankyou wrote:@fightinfrenchman think policies are much more important than gender, race or both ;) If she wins it should be on her merits and her policies, and not her gender. I am not sure, but I feel that if a female candidate should arise with the arguments that the majority of the ppl think is good/fair, I think she will win. Hell, even in India they had a female prime minister 40 years ago ;)
Not saying its not hard to get power when you're a woman. But, gender just doesn't cut it for me like Clinton style; "I'm with her" :idea:

rewinding:
You had a black person cos he was talking about Change, but nothing really changed, did it?
Then, out of despair you elected a Businessperson, who def was not part of the establishment, that was even worse
Now you say, let's get a female/black person, or maybe both black and female, maybe that will work?
how about getting an old goat, with plenty of energy, that have had the same political stance for 4 decades, and has proven to be incorruptible? HOW ABOUT THEM APPLES :love: :love:


If your argument is that nothing changed under Obama I don't know what to say
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11 Jan 2019, 21:31

what fundamental changes to US politics did Obama make? You tell me @fightinfrenhman
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No Flag fightinfrenchman
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11 Jan 2019, 21:36

iwillspankyou wrote:what fundamental changes to US politics did Obama make? You tell me @fightinfrenhman


Obamacare
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11 Jan 2019, 21:51

fightinfrenchman wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:what fundamental changes to US politics did Obama make? You tell me @fightinfrenhman


Obamacare

that is a halfway house, making it more and more expensive to buy into it, and there is no cap on what insurance companies can charge and what medicine can cost. It has actually been the most important cause for the drug prices to skyrocket. A halfway medicare for all was chicken legislation. In Obamas first 2 years, he had full control in both chambers, but he did not implement a public healthcare system for all citizen. I would say Obama talked like velvet, but ruled like a Wall Street sellout:!:
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11 Jan 2019, 22:54

I hope the USA finally embrases more left politics. When the rest of the world moves to the left, NL can top that and get even more communist. It's the future anyways.
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12 Jan 2019, 02:29

I regret posting in this thread
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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12 Jan 2019, 10:40

momuuu wrote:I hope the USA finally embrases more left politics. When the rest of the world moves to the left, NL can top that and get even more communist. It's the future anyways.

Does the NL have a serious left party? GroenLinks is more associated with climate than leftist policies, D66 has a robot in charge, PvdA died, what's left? You need to start your own communist party to impress me.
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12 Jan 2019, 10:55

Since when is jerom communist lol. Seriously or trolling? Have you read das kapital? (Serious questions btw)
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Armenia Sargsyan
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12 Jan 2019, 11:07

Jermon has communist clan in aoe3, first serious step taken.
Edit: im in that clan too

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