COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

Lejend, your quality of posts is honestly degrading.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Dolan »

He's expressing a typical position from the Anglophone Protestant world, which is also common among libertarians, that the state needs to be minimal.
This idea was shaped by the colonial Protestant experience in the New World, where the state were a bunch of English owners acting on behalf of the crown (they were called Lord proprietors).
Basically in the 17th century Brit colonies in America, the law was given from abroad. Carolina, for example, had its constitution written by a team that included John Locke and guided by his patron, the 1st Earl of Shaftesbury.
Imagine how those Brits who lived in the Carolina colony felt about this fact of life that your laws came from abroad. They must have felt that the state is some kind of foreign power that still has a hold on their everyday life. It's a colonist mentality.

Whereas in Europe, we never got the feeling that the government is some kind of encroaching alien power, we thought it's our common good, that we only temporarily lease to elected politicians to actually get some things done in the public interest. European societies are more tribal at their core and in their mentalities.
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

Just because we don't write 23 pages, 3984 words long essays don't mean we are unaware of things.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by duckzilla »

If you need 23 pages for your 3984 words, you are likely to also include large figures as well as a good number of references. That would be nice, actually.

edit: now that I think about it, in your case it is maybe more likely that you just use large font size.
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

Look up in the sky. You see that plane? Yeah that's high the point flew over your head.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Cometk wrote:i mean who could really disagree that a neo-liberal capitalist democracy which refuses to restrict corporate campaign finance would produce a legislature full of plutocratic shitstains
Post of the year imo
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by wardyb1 »

I'm not really sure what has caused the dearth of great political leaders at least in semi recent times. Although I semi agree with comet's take about political finance, that shouldn't stop personable/charismatic (imo a key aspect of a great leader) leaders from reaching the upper echelons of politics, because those people can also still be scummy in taking corporate money. I disagree that democracies cause it because many democracies have had great leaders throughout the decades, no different to any other political system.

Could it be lifestyle/generational differences or whatnot? Changing to social media/internet/24/7 news culture that makes it impossible to form a coherent political message and strategy? Does the effect of only needing to produce a 1min sound-bite mean leaders no longer needed to be charismatic or produce quality policy? That is where I've sort of come to lie on the opinion but I'm not sure how based in fact it is. All I can say anecdotally is that is what it seems like. I see the great leaders of Australian politics in the 70's and 80's and how they communicated in parliament, in the media, to their constituents and see absolutely no similarity to any politicians now.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

With the media landscape, the genuine, no nonsense politician doesnt sell well. You need to play the game instead of focus on being a good leader.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by duckzilla »

wardyb1 wrote:I'm not really sure what has caused the dearth of great political leaders at least in semi recent times.
I don't believe that there is actually a "dearth of great political leaders". It is rather that our standards have improved sufficiently that we don't see that kind of quality in today's leaders due to their performance being ambiguous - similar to how we view past "great leaders" today.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Dolan »

I doubt the influence of capital on politics is something that new and that it got worse today than it was, say, 150 years ago. In the early days of modern democracy and capitalism, capital played a bigger role, because wealth disparity was much bigger back then and politics was a lot more unregulated than now.

So, in those early days of "wild west" capitalism, when Marx and socialists wrote those works decrying the state of the working class, things were objectively worse. The working class was living in terrible conditions and the big capital had direct access to politicians, a lot more than today, when the media monitors everything. Basically back then politics was a big club of property owners and people from influential families. There's a lot more democratic scrutiny today and the legal framework has expanded hugely to limit any obvious and glaring act of power abuse on the part of elected officials.

It's just that corruption has gotten a lot more subtle, smarter, and it's a lot more difficult for politicians to make backroom deals with moneyed interests. So they use a lot of intermediaries, offshore schemes, bitcoin, etc.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

I think its just that populair soundbites and shit are more efficient at reaching the voters than genuine good leadership. The Dutch prime minister has been PM for a while, and its usually attributed to the fact that scandals somehow dont seem to stick to him. It definitely doesnt have anything to do with his good leadership, he's just great at creating a likable persona. Hes supposed to be so 'normal' and indeed has the ability to get away with the most outrageous stuff. Meanwhile left politicians are dropping constantly because a big part of the left voter base actually does still care about integrity. But in the bigger picture its easier to just not care about that shit at all.

Id 'blame' the modern media for that. People prefer consuming some article with a cool soundbite of a politician saying something popular in a nice way over reading an in depth analysis of the exact consequences of an action of a politician and why that thing the politician did is smart or not.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Dolan »

Yeah well.. it's not just the media that are to blame. The media just serve the product that appeals to the widest audience.
So it's the people who look at politics as a big TV show who are the problem. If the public didn't like reading about scandals, the media would have no incentive to write about them.
Most people are just kids when it comes to reasoning about politics, they're very simple minded and easy to sway with the right campaign.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Second dose acquired, finally.

Astonishing how much difference the vaccinator makes. First one effectively molested me compared to this one.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Snuden »

A friend of mine also have 2 shots, now she is sick with corona.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by duckzilla »

I've got my second shot a month ago. Now I'm sick with a cold.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Snuden wrote:A friend of mine also have 2 shots, now she is sick with corona.
To counter this anecdotal evidence, a friend of mine went to a party with a group of 12 (government decided to yolo it so it was legal). It ended up being a superspreading event. He was the only fully vaccinated one of those 12 and 'coincidentally' also the only one that didnt get infected.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by XeeleeFlower »

GS and I had our second shot on Tuesday and had pretty much zero side effects other than feeling a little tired. For the first shot, I did have some very mild side effects, but nothing crazy. However, my arm hurt for a really long time and I had a pretty bad bruise for like 2 weeks. This time, arm pain mostly went away yesterday and I don't see a bruise yet :) Sadly, I'm not magnetic.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by XeeleeFlower »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
Snuden wrote:A friend of mine also have 2 shots, now she is sick with corona.
To counter this anecdotal evidence, a friend of mine went to a party with a group of 12 (government decided to yolo it so it was legal). It ended up being a superspreading event. He was the only fully vaccinated one of those 12 and 'coincidentally' also the only one that didnt get infected.
My hairstylist was at that superspreading music festival thing that happened in Utrecht a month or so ago. Only had one vax at the time, but she still escaped unscathed.
Time is wise and our wounds seem to heal to the rhythm of aging,
But our past is a ghost fading out that at night it’s still haunting.

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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Snuden »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
Snuden wrote:A friend of mine also have 2 shots, now she is sick with corona.
To counter this anecdotal evidence, a friend of mine went to a party with a group of 12 (government decided to yolo it so it was legal). It ended up being a superspreading event. He was the only fully vaccinated one of those 12 and 'coincidentally' also the only one that didnt get infected.
What does that have to do with my friend :?:
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

XeeleeFlower wrote:GS and I had our second shot on Tuesday and had pretty much zero side effects other than feeling a little tired. For the first shot, I did have some very mild side effects, but nothing crazy. However, my arm hurt for a really long time and I had a pretty bad bruise for like 2 weeks. This time, arm pain mostly went away yesterday and I don't see a bruise yet :) Sadly, I'm not magnetic.
Im convinced the first time the person vaccinating me was just really bad at her job. She rammed that needle in with so much force, it was unreal. Second girl was much more proficient, my arm doesnt even hurt atm.
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by princeofcarthage »

duckzilla wrote:I've got my second shot a month ago. Now I'm sick with a cold.
I am down with cold too :/
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Snuden wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:
Snuden wrote:A friend of mine also have 2 shots, now she is sick with corona.
To counter this anecdotal evidence, a friend of mine went to a party with a group of 12 (government decided to yolo it so it was legal). It ended up being a superspreading event. He was the only fully vaccinated one of those 12 and 'coincidentally' also the only one that didnt get infected.
What does that have to do with my friend :?:
Nothing, but I wanted to counter your anecdotal evidence with my anecdotal evidence. In reality one can only make a good judgement by looking at the data that overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that the vaccines offer significant protection against the virus and against hospitalization.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by Snuden »

Why is my evidence anecdotal :?:

Could it be that you were SO eager to appear intellectual that you made your own conclusion regarding my post, instead of simply read what I wrote.
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by RefluxSemantic »

nah
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Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus Outbreak

Post by wardyb1 »

Finally getting my first AZ dose today. Catch me with that extra 5g coverage
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