Lejend's little corner

[Jam]

@lejend My grandmother used to pray in front of a mirror by candlelight with incense and a rosary, she said she did it without the rosary once and something bad happened so she never did it again.

Well, I can tell you that incense, rosaries, icons, relics, "holy water" and similar objects have no special power and there's no reason to think God is more pleased if he's invoked before such objects than otherwise. As Philip Melanchthon explains quite well:

Images of Christ and of the saints, that is, representations of their story by means of paintings and the like in churches and elsewhere, have, as Gregory says, been the books of the illiterate, that is, they explain the story like a written book. In itself this is a matter of indifference concerning which Christians should not quarrel.

Since, then, such representation provides for the illiterate the advantage of seeing and learning the stories as if from books, we do not reject pictures in themselves, nor do we abolish them; we do, however, reprove their misuse.

For we teach that images are not to be worshipped; nor is it to be thought that they have power; nor should people think that setting up images of God or of the saints is serving God, or that God is more gracious or does more than otherwise if He is invoked before such an image.

For God wants men to grasp Him only in faith through His Word and His sacraments; therefore it is a godless error to bind God to certain images without God’s Word. It is also a wicked error to think that a deed performed in front of such an image pleases God more than if done elsewhere; for we should believe that God in all places hears those who earnestly call upon Him. Hence Isaiah [66:1] reproves those who do not believe that God everywhere hears those who call upon Him in true spiritual worship, for he says that, even though the heaven is the Lord’s throne, yet God dwells “in him that is poor and of a contrite spirit”. Christ says [John 4:21, 23]: “Ye shall neither in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem worship the Father…but…in spirit and in truth,” and Paul says [1 Tim. 2:8]: “I will that men pray everywhere”.

-Wittenberg Articles: Article XVII. Images

She wasn't praying to God or a christian though, she was praying in general to communicate with entities of some sort.

[Jotunir]

@lejend My grandmother used to pray in front of a mirror by candlelight with incense and a rosary, she said she did it without the rosary once and something bad happened so she never did it again.

Well, I can tell you that incense, rosaries, icons, relics, "holy water" and similar objects have no special power and there's no reason to think God is more pleased if he's invoked before such objects than otherwise. As Philip Melanchthon explains quite well:

Images of Christ and of the saints, that is, representations of their story by means of paintings and the like in churches and elsewhere, have, as Gregory says, been the books of the illiterate, that is, they explain the story like a written book. In itself this is a matter of indifference concerning which Christians should not quarrel.

Since, then, such representation provides for the illiterate the advantage of seeing and learning the stories as if from books, we do not reject pictures in themselves, nor do we abolish them; we do, however, reprove their misuse.

For we teach that images are not to be worshipped; nor is it to be thought that they have power; nor should people think that setting up images of God or of the saints is serving God, or that God is more gracious or does more than otherwise if He is invoked before such an image.

For God wants men to grasp Him only in faith through His Word and His sacraments; therefore it is a godless error to bind God to certain images without God’s Word. It is also a wicked error to think that a deed performed in front of such an image pleases God more than if done elsewhere; for we should believe that God in all places hears those who earnestly call upon Him. Hence Isaiah [66:1] reproves those who do not believe that God everywhere hears those who call upon Him in true spiritual worship, for he says that, even though the heaven is the Lord’s throne, yet God dwells “in him that is poor and of a contrite spirit”. Christ says [John 4:21, 23]: “Ye shall neither in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem worship the Father…but…in spirit and in truth,” and Paul says [1 Tim. 2:8]: “I will that men pray everywhere”.

-Wittenberg Articles: Article XVII. Images

She wasn't praying to God or a christian though, she was praying in general to communicate with entities of some sort.

Did it work?

[lejend]

@legend , good to see some Melangthon getting pulled out. Not really read any of his work, but one of my friends did his research project on some of his writings.

Yeah, I'm not really into Lutheranism but Melanchthon perfectly articulates my view on the whole system of relics, icons, etc.

There's plenty of reasons to think that

No Biblical reasons, though.

She wasn't praying to God or a christian though, she was praying in general to communicate with entities of some sort.

It's generally a bad idea to pray to anyone besides God.

[fightinfrenchman]

There's plenty of reasons to think that

No Biblical reasons, though.

That's a totally different thing you're saying then

[fightinfrenchman]

It's generally a bad idea to pray to anyone besides God.

What's wrong with McDonald's

[lejend]

There's plenty of reasons to think that

No Biblical reasons, though.

That's a totally different thing you're saying then

The Bible is the highest authority on matters of faith and doctrine, so if it rules one way or another on any given issue, that settles the debate.

[fightinfrenchman]

Show hidden quotes

There's plenty of reasons to think that

No Biblical reasons, though.

That's a totally different thing you're saying then

The Bible is the highest authority on matters of faith and doctrine, so if it rules one way or another on any given issue, that settles the debate.

I actually know about a higher authority

[lejend]

Show hidden quotes

There's plenty of reasons to think that

No Biblical reasons, though.

That's a totally different thing you're saying then

The Bible is the highest authority on matters of faith and doctrine, so if it rules one way or another on any given issue, that settles the debate.

I actually know about a higher authority

We don't need to bring Dolan into this discussion

[lejend]

“Not only those with whom we have some connection are called our neighbors, but all without exception; for the whole human race forms one body, of which all are members, and consequently should be bound together by mutual ties; for we must bear in mind that even those who are most alienated from us, should be cherished and aided even as our own flesh; since we have seen elsewhere that sojourners and strangers are placed in the same category (with our relations) and Christ sufficiently confirms this in the case of the Samaritan.”

–John Calvin's commentary on Leviticus 19

“For we must not look what every man is, nor what he deserveth: but we must mount up higher and consider that God hath set us in this world to the end we should be united and knit together: and that forasmuch as he hath imprinted his image in us, and we have all one common nature: the same ought to move us to succor one another. For he that will exempt himself from relieving his neighbors, must get him a new shape, and show that he intendeth to be no more a man: for so long as we be of mankind, we cannot but behold our own face as it were in a glass, in the person that is poor and despised, which is not able to hold out any longer, but lieth groaning under his burden, yea though he were the furthest stranger in the world. Let a Moor or a Barbarian come among us, and yet inasmuch as he is a man, he bringeth with him a looking glass, wherein we may see that he is our brother and neighbor. For we cannot abolish the order of nature, which God hath set to be inviolable. So then we be bound to all men without difference, because we be all one flesh, as the Prophet Esay avoweth: (Isaiah 58:7) Thou shalt not despise thine own flesh.”

–John Calvin's sermon on Galatians 6:10

[lejend]

Sermon: Dead to Sin, Romans 6 (emphasis in original)

Some people are offended by the message of the gospel, for various reasons. They hear the message that we can be received by God freely, apart from works, on the basis of grace alone through faith alone, and they say “Hmph, sounds like a pretty easy religion. A religion for weak people. A religion for people who can’t get it together. A religion for losers. A religion for sinners.” Friends, that’s exactly right. Christianity is a religion for losers, and sinners, and rebels, for the poor and needy, for the sick and wretched. Christianity is not a religion for righteous people but for unrighteous people. Jesus himself said that he’d come to call not the righteous, but sinners. So if you think of yourself as a righteous person, Christianity is not for you. But hear this: you are not righteous and you need Jesus just as much as the losers you despise.

Others are offended because they think the gospel will inspire us to sin. They say “look, you can’t teach people that they’re freely forgiven. You have to make them work. Make them do a little penance. Tell them that God will only love them if they are very obedient. How will you get people to behave if they think they’re loved unconditionally?”

I’d offer two responses.

First, that’s not the way reality works. If Scripture says that salvation is a free gift from beginning to end, then it is. It doesn’t matter whether you like it. It doesn’t matter whether you think it will be good for society. It doesn’t matter whether you think there are better ways to get people to behave. What’s true is true. God’s Word says that man is justified by grace through faith apart from works.

Second, that’s not even how real life works. Do you really think that lasting behavioral change only comes about through threatening and not through unconditional love? Think about times you’ve been deeply changed or transformed in a relationship. Was it because someone threatened you? Or was it because, even when they challenged you and admonished you, you knew that they loved you and were 100% completely committed to you? That’s how real, lasting transformation happens.

Third, some people are genuinely confused. They assume that Christianity is just like every other religion. They think Christianity teaches that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell. Then they read the Bible and they realize that Christianity teaches something entirely different. It teaches that there are no good people and that if anyone is going to be saved, it has to be entirely on the basis of God’s grace, his unmerited favor, his unearned kindness towards wicked, corrupt rebels. So if you’re genuinely asking –in wonder and astonishment– “What? Is God’s grace really that great? Will God’s mercy really cover every sin? Is salvation truly, 100% free?” then you are finally starting to get it.

[fightinfrenchman]

First, that’s not the way reality works. If Scripture says that salvation is a free gift from beginning to end, then it is. It doesn’t matter whether you like it. It doesn’t matter whether you think it will be good for society. It doesn’t matter whether you think there are better ways to get people to behave. What’s true is true. God’s Word says that man is justified by grace through faith apart from works.

Really compelling argument here

[Dolan]

[lejend]

[lejend]

So I was watching this video on Facebook when suddenly I got this message. Weird