US Politics Megathread

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Great Britain Horsemen
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Horsemen »

I would normally be in favour of abortion rights, but after seeing people get upset over ‘neoliberalism’ I’m actually quite happy to see the socialists getting owned for once
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Goodspeed »

Why did you put that in quotes
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Great Britain Horsemen
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Horsemen »

Because it’s not real
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Goodspeed »

iNcog wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 13:21
Did some posts get deleted?
What are you missing?
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Armenia Sargsyan
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Sargsyan »

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krichk wrote:For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge Challenger_Marco
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by chris1089 »

iNcog wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 13:21
Did some posts get deleted?
No
No Flag lejend
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by lejend »

Sargsyan wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 15:32
Image


Joe Biden has wanted to ban abortion for decades. He only pretended to be pro-abortion so he could fool the Patriots into letting him be president.

Cats do love to play as snakes.

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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by princeofcarthage »

1982 and 1994 is too fucking old though. People can change opinion based on new information, experiences or other stuff. Sure he may have done those things at that time but that doesn't mean he still follows through the same opinions today. It is okay to change. Change should be accepted. People shouldn't be punished for something they said 30 years ago under completely different circumstances unless they haven't changed at all.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by callentournies »

Good points in this thread
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by fightinfrenchman »

lejend wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 16:10

Cats do love to play as snakes.

Image
Holy shit how have I not seen this before? Taking my Biden sticker off my car and voting for Trump next time. This is unbelievable
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by fightinfrenchman »

lejend wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 13:40
They're not a problem to be solved, they're an innocent human being every bit as valuable and worthy of protection as anyone else.
Protection from what?
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Goodspeed »

Horsemen wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 14:53
Because it’s not real
How would you describe the political movement centered around deregulation and privatization that started in the late 1970s?
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Dolan »

Goodspeed wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 10:41
Many new deal policies were not intended to expire and indeed didn't. You are intentionally only looking at very specific parts of it because it fits your narrative.
Those were basically the USA adding social safety net systems that already existed in Europe: a pension system, an unemployment insurance system and other welfare payments for special categories (like the disabled). There was also the law that introduced the right to collective bargaining by unionising. But these didn't change how the economy worked in itself, as these safety nets were funded from taxes. And no, they weren't funded because FDR brought a huge tax on the highest incomes, like 79% on incomes over $5 million. Apparently there was one single person in the entire USA who had such an income, Rockefeller, so I'm sure that taking a percentage out of a few millions didn't produce any mass changes in the economy. This super-high tax on the incomes of the wealthy was just for show, it was an image stunt that FDR wanted to pull for political reasons. But for some reason, this PR move stuck with people and today people on the left side of the spectrum get euphoric mentioning this super-high tax on the wealthy and attribute the success of the new deal policies to this particular tax. Most of the super-rich didn't have personal incomes, again, they were shareholders who made bank on capital gains. And as a result of new deal tax policies, they actually got ever more creative in using loopholes to avoid paying high taxes.
So I'm not really avoiding these points, I just didn't consider that they had much of a macroeconomic impact. It's not these measures that brought the US economy back on track.
Are you so afraid of communism that you feel the need to characterize any progressive policy as a shift in our economic system, enabling you to argue internally that we are dangerously moving away from capitalism? Trigger the ole' amygdala?
What is a progressive economic policy?

Why would I have any emotion whatsoever about whatever economic policy was or is done in the USA or Western Europe? I don't live there, they can do whatever crosses their minds. They can go full-blown communist for all I care.
It would make sense if they did so because history seems to work in asymmetrical ways: as we escaped the illusion of communism and embarked on adopting a market economic system, those who lived under that market-based economic system are now attracted to the spectrum of communism.
Actually we have the same problem here. We, too, are struggling with the results of 40 years of neoliberal politics.
In what way, how are you struggling in the West? Because looking at the level of incomes and purchasing power in the West, not sure you guys have any idea what struggle is. Is having to settle for a cheaper vacation compared to previous years a struggle? There are people here living on 250 bucks per month, paying bills and buying staples so they can live another month. They'd love to switch places and get some of that neoliberal Western struggle instead of just doing basic survival.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Goodspeed »

Dolan wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 19:52
Goodspeed wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 10:41
Many new deal policies were not intended to expire and indeed didn't. You are intentionally only looking at very specific parts of it because it fits your narrative.
Those were basically the USA adding social safety net systems that already existed in Europe: a pension system, an unemployment insurance system and other welfare payments for special categories (like the disabled). There was also the law that introduced the right to collective bargaining by unionising. But these didn't change how the economy worked in itself, as these safety nets were funded from taxes. And no, they weren't funded because FDR brought a huge tax on the highest incomes, like 79% on incomes over $5 million. Apparently there was one single person in the entire USA who had such an income, Rockefeller, so I'm sure that taking a percentage out of a few millions didn't produce any mass changes in the economy. This super-high tax on the incomes of the wealthy was just for show, it was an image stunt that FDR wanted to pull for political reasons. But for some reason, this PR move stuck with people and today people on the left side of the spectrum get euphoric mentioning this super-high tax on the wealthy and attribute the success of the new deal policies to this particular tax. Most of the super-rich didn't have personal incomes, again, they were shareholders who made bank on capital gains. And as a result of new deal tax policies, they actually got ever more creative in using loopholes to avoid paying high taxes.
So I'm not really avoiding these points, I just didn't consider that they had much of a macroeconomic impact. It's not these measures that brought the US economy back on track.
I haven't been talking about what did or didn't bring the US economy back on track. My only point was that the new deal wasn't just a regulatory framework. Turns out you apparently do know that, so we agree.
What is a progressive economic policy?
Let's say a progressive economic policy in this system has to either be redistributive, regulate markets or strengthen organized labor. The new deal had policies in all of those categories (see links). I think now we also need policies from all three categories.
Why would I have any emotion whatsoever about whatever economic policy was or is done in the USA or Western Europe?
Idk, maybe because a lot of other countries tend to follow in their footsteps, especially in Eastern Europe.
In what way, how are you struggling in the West? Because looking at the level of incomes and purchasing power in the West, not sure you guys have any idea what struggle is.
We're not struggling in any objective sense, but neither is the US really. By struggling I mostly mean rising inequality. The current generation is poorer than the last (exacerbated by an increasing wealth gap between homeowners and renters), wages have been stagnant for decades, the middle class is shrinking, and we're still facing an ageing population.

Stock indices are 10x the value they were 40 years ago. Wages are the same. Go figure.
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Kiribati princeofcarthage
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by princeofcarthage »

@Goodspeed genuine question. How does stock indices and wages co-relate? I mean stock after all is still just speculation.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
No Flag RefluxSemantic
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by RefluxSemantic »

princeofcarthage wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 21:42
@Goodspeed genuine question. How does stock indices and wages co-relate? I mean stock after all is still just speculation.
Well, when stocks go down too much a bunch of 'too big to fail' corporations need to be saved so the government makes the working class pay for it.

That's how stocks and wages are related.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Dolan »

Goodspeed wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 21:07
Stock indices are 10x the value they were 40 years ago. Wages are the same. Go figure.
And what does that show.
Where are wages the same as 40 yrs ago
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by n0el »

princeofcarthage wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 21:42
@Goodspeed genuine question. How does stock indices and wages co-relate? I mean stock after all is still just speculation.
C-suite and other high level are incentivized almost entirely by stock price. Stock price goes down, one way to entice investors is lowering costs through reducing # of employees. Do this across many companies on a large scale, demand for jobs is much lower then supply, wages stagnate since there is no incentive by companies to increase them since the supply of workers is large.
mad cuz bad
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Great Britain Horsemen
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Horsemen »

Goodspeed wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 19:04
Horsemen wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 14:53
Because it’s not real
How would you describe the political movement centered around deregulation and privatization that started in the late 1970s?
Socialism-lite
Rainbow Land callentournies
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by callentournies »

Hum
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
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United States of America Cometk
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Cometk »

US Senator from Texas



@lejend thoughtsh?
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United States of America Cometk
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Cometk »

Horsemen wrote:
26 Jun 2022, 03:35
Goodspeed wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 19:04
Horsemen wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 14:53
Because it’s not real
How would you describe the political movement centered around deregulation and privatization that started in the late 1970s?
Socialism-lite
Don’t do this to me
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United States of America Cometk
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Cometk »

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Nauru Dolan
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Dolan »

Isn't this gonna weigh on Repubs in midterms
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: US Politics Megathread

Post by Goodspeed »

Dolan wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 23:30
Goodspeed wrote:
25 Jun 2022, 21:07
Stock indices are 10x the value they were 40 years ago. Wages are the same. Go figure.
And what does that show.
That wealth was created, just not where it matters.
Where are wages the same as 40 yrs ago
Everywhere except in developing countries. Adjusted for inflation, obviously. They might've grown a couple of percentage points in some places, declined in others, but yeah, basically no change.

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