Religion

[Papist]

I am not religious simply because nobody has shown me evidence of a god existing. If someone has some, please do share. Otherwise, you are being irrational by being religious.

How was the universe created?

I don't know how the universe came into existence (or weather it did, or has always been there).

If you claim that a god did it you must provide evidence for this.

Theism is irrational - you will get no argument from me there. But arguing that that a supernatural force cannot possibly have created the universe when you have no plausible theory of your own is equally irrational. This is not the like evolution vs. natural design debate, where the former has hard evidence and the latter has faith. In this debate, all either side has is faith; the belief that when the evidence does present itself, it will support their argument.

The only rational thing to do is acknowledge that we don't know the answer to this question yet.

[lejend]

i've already made and repeated my point multiple times, you're just too thick to get it... =_= the point was that people believe in religion because that's what theyre taught... its really not a difficult point.

Your point is nonsensical. Seems to be just an edgy solipsism.

[Papist]

i've already made and repeated my point multiple times, you're just too thick to get it... =_= the point was that people believe in religion because that's what theyre taught... its really not a difficult point. being told so and so by someone else is what we usually consider an education, to say it simply. To learn something by personal experience (cut yourself on glass once, feel the pain) and logical deduction (i cut myself once, the i felt pain because i cut myself, so if i cut myself again, i would feel pain again, which i dont like, so stay away from glass) does not require other people. So these things you can learn without being taught. So my question to you is, tell me how many people believe in their religion for different reasons than being taught by others?

Presumably someone found his/her fith organically; otherwise religion wouldn't exist.

[deleted_user0]

i've already made and repeated my point multiple times, you're just too thick to get it... =_= the point was that people believe in religion because that's what theyre taught... its really not a difficult point.

Your point is nonsensical. Seems to be just an edgy solipsism.

how is it nonsensical, make an argument, if you have the ability to do so...

[Goodspeed]

Theism is irrational - you will get no argument from me there. But arguing that that a supernatural force cannot possibly have created the universe when you have no plausible theory of your own is equally irrational.

I would say anything "supernatural" doesn't exist by definition. If it existed it would be natural.

[deleted_user0]

i've already made and repeated my point multiple times, you're just too thick to get it... =_= the point was that people believe in religion because that's what theyre taught... its really not a difficult point. being told so and so by someone else is what we usually consider an education, to say it simply. To learn something by personal experience (cut yourself on glass once, feel the pain) and logical deduction (i cut myself once, the i felt pain because i cut myself, so if i cut myself again, i would feel pain again, which i dont like, so stay away from glass) does not require other people. So these things you can learn without being taught. So my question to you is, tell me how many people believe in their religion for different reasons than being taught by others?

Presumably someone found his/her fith organically; otherwise religion wouldn't exist.

hardly. its not just one belief, its a set of beliefs. which someone could have gathered by learning different things from other people. someone couldve just made it all up and being an effective teacher, taught other people and spread it rapidly. or being persuasive in other ways, like mohammed.

[gibson]

Lol the classic "take something we don't understand and substitute God" argument.

If you have no plausible theory of your own, it is irrational of you to assume another can't possibly be true without any evidence to suggest such. Atheism is just as faith based as theism, only it likes to masquerade as science.

I dont assume it isnt true, I just dont consider it at all just like I dont consider that we got created by a 100 mile long extraterrestrial flying pickle. If you can bring more too the table then someone arguing that we were created by a flying pickle at that point I will weigh your argument against what I believe to be true. To reiterate, If pressed I would never say God can't possibly be true, but at this point I consider the existence of the Christian God to be as likely as the infinite other explanations about why we are here.

Well God doesn't explain anything, in fact he just makes things more complex. How was he created. How does his magic work etc etc

You are trying to apply natural laws and restrictions to something supernatural. Theists have a critical advantage in this debate - their explanations do not have to abide by the laws of nature (i.e. everything must be "created" by another thing and have a force that causes it to "work"), whereas atheists' do since they like to claim their arguments are scientific.

In the end, both arguments are faith based, and can neither proven nor disproven.

Not really. If we are arguing from a purely scientific point of view (i.e. what would be taught in a science class) the supernatural can't even be considered. If we're discussing a realm of possibly where the "supernatural" exists there are literally infinite other explanations to how we got here today, and not hardly anything that would imply it was because of the Christian god.

Ah the lejend is still with us
@gibson I'm curious, how did your parents respond when you told them of your change of heart?

I think they already kind of knew. I didn't make a particularly large effort to hide it, because I knew that it wouldn't change the way that they treated me or how much they cared for me. Mostly they were just sad, not with me, but with themselves. My mom already felt like she hadn't done the greatest job raising me, and this made her feel even more so. I was always rebellious as a child, so in retrospect I think they realized that having me go to church with them every sunday, pray before meals etc wasn't the best idea. Not that they ever forced me to, but I think they think if they had made it more optional I would have come to a different conclusion.
Also, I'd like to thank you for being willing to listen to me and carry on a discussion with me. If it hadn't been for you I'm honestly not sure where I would be today. Having someone besides my own strawmans to bounce ideas off of and discuss with was huge for me. I certainly wouldn't have had the patience to do so and neither would most of the other people I've met both on and off the internet. Honestly you're probably the most influential person in my life in terms of shaping what I believe today, and I really do appreciate it.

[Jaeger]

Theism is irrational - you will get no argument from me there. But arguing that that a supernatural force cannot possibly have created the universe when you have no plausible theory of your own is equally irrational. This is not the like evolution vs. natural design debate, where the former has hard evidence and the latter has faith. In this debate, all either side has is faith; the belief that when the evidence does present itself, it will support their argument.

The only rational thing to do is acknowledge that we don't know the answer to this question yet.

I literarly just said in that quote that I don't know how the universe came into existence.

[Goodspeed]

I think they already kind of knew. I didn't make a particularly large effort to hide it, because I knew that it wouldn't change the way that they treated me or how much they cared for me. Mostly they were just sad, not with me, but with themselves. My mom already felt like she hadn't done the greatest job raising me, and this made her feel even more so. I was always rebellious as a child, so in retrospect I think they realized that having me go to church with them every sunday, pray before meals etc wasn't the best idea. Not that they ever forced me to, but I think they think if they had made it more optional I would have come to a different conclusion.

I can see why they would think that. Sounds like they didn't overreact, though. That's good. One hears horror stories sometimes.

Also, I'd like to thank you for being willing to listen to me and carry on a discussion with me. If it hadn't been for you I'm honestly not sure where I would be today. Having someone besides my own strawmans to bounce ideas off of and discuss with was huge for me. I certainly wouldn't have had the patience to do so and neither would most of the other people I've met both on and off the internet. Honestly you're probably the most influential person in my life in terms of shaping what I believe today, and I really do appreciate it.

That's nice to hear. Thank you for saying that. And it really was my pleasure. Your perspective was a very interesting one. You were different from any other religious person I discussed the subject with. You were open-minded and curious, able to discuss things in a constructive way instead of repeating the same shit over and over. It was clear that you wanted more than just faith to go by. Perhaps in you I saw myself as I might've been if I was raised religiously. It was especially interesting that you didn't seem to know you were on your way to changing your mind. Or did you?

[sc]

i've already made and repeated my point multiple times, you're just too thick to get it... =_= the point was that people believe in religion because that's what theyre taught... its really not a difficult point.

Your point is nonsensical. Seems to be just an edgy solipsism.

how is it nonsensical, make an argument, if you have the ability to do so...

Maybe he meant to say your point was a gross generalization that trivializes the coming to faith of hundreds of millions who weren't raised with X religion.
I dunno

[HUMMAN]

Teist religions are no different than mythologicies but i respect people who believe in philosophical aspect, like deism. Umeu first said something i love "Does it matter if god exits" Yeah i am apateist. Does'nt matter if it exists since i use my truth in my decisions, a fair god would understand that. Also many people use religion as a spritual term but a like another definition. "The belief which organizes human society and explains universe" So it covers modern religions like communism, evolutionary socialism; all of them are outside of the rationality but human beings evolved to be so. First primitive societies evolved in this aspect, which helped them to organize complexy unlike any species on earth. I find Yuval Noah Harrari's explanations very helpful in human evolution and history; you can read the book but actually i love his lectures in youtube.

[therapist umeu]

Religions have caused nothing but trouble and hatred. And people have misused it for gaining power in society. Religions are pointless and shouldn't exist in modern world.

Actually religion has been a saving Grace for many who do not have much else to cling to. Think of Africa or Asia, places where families and towns are torn apart. Religion has saved many by giving them hope and something to look forward to. So shh. It goes both ways, it has caused trouble and hatred but not just that.

[Mameluke]

Play now?

[edeholland]

People convert because they have that spiritual void to fill. There's great comfort in "knowing" you are protected and loved no matter what happens in real life. Has nothing to do with truth, though.

Yes

When I am asked "Are you a Christian?" or "Do you believe in God?" I can't answer yes straight away because I don't share the believes of others Christians and I don't think of God the same way others do.

However, I do believe in 'God' because I believe that knowing there is hope (both in this life and whatever comes next) does help me, and I don't care whether it's actually true (would be nice though ). If I am dead and I lived a lie all my life, I can't regret it anyways, and so for me it only has positives. Also, I think it did/does help me with certain moral values, but I realise in the end I have to make up what is best for the world myself. In the end it helps me with a certain mindset, and I won't regret it when it turns out my believes weren't true, because it helped me in my life. I think it comes pretty close to what Goodspeed said above and Umeu said below here.

You should live your life such, that upon finding out that god does or does not exist (depending on your beliefs), you would still not change a thing. And thus the question becomes irrelevant.

[Dolan]

What about if we are living in a computer simulation? Would its creator be our god? Would it still be religion? Not quite as spiritual of an idea, but at least this one makes some sense.

What if we are living in a cave, actually, and what we call reality is just shadows of actors playing on a wall, when true reality is outside the cave? This hypothesis reeks of a form of Platonism, the idea that reality is fundamentally deceitful, that the senses are lying, and that "real" reality is elsewhere, distinct from our world.

It's an unfalsifiable, untestable, thought experiment that is meant to stir controversy. You know philosophy is dead, when the "best" of its field are peddling such arguments like the one on "philosophical zombies" and the "simulation hypothesis". It's not even philosophy anymore, it's phantasmasophy.

[deleted_user0]

Your point is nonsensical. Seems to be just an edgy solipsism.

how is it nonsensical, make an argument, if you have the ability to do so...

Maybe he meant to say your point was a gross generalization that trivializes the coming to faith of hundreds of millions who weren't raised with X religion.
I dunno

Which hundreds of millions? Theres like 2 billion christians. Are you implying that these people also wouldve been christian if they had not come into contact with other christians?

[lejend]

but at this point I consider the existence of the Christian God to be as likely as the infinite other explanations about why we are here.

Such as?

[AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE]

How was the universe created?

I don't know how the universe came into existence (or weather it did, or has always been there).

If you claim that a god did it you must provide evidence for this.

...

The only rational thing to do is acknowledge that we don't know the answer to this question yet.

exactly, in fact, it would be a big surprise if science will ever answer that question, since there was no time or space before the big bang, all we have left is our faith, the claim that the big bang came out of "nowhere" is scientific bs.. (against the principle of the conservation of energy)

[Goodspeed]

It could have come out of nowhere from our perspective, but not really. Imagine being a character in a game, and a monster spawns ahead of you. As far as the information in the game universe goes, that monster appeared completely out of nowhere. After all, the game universe has no way of reaching beyond it into the software that generated the monster.
Could be like that with the big bang. It could be that whatever generated it is outside of our scope of reality. I'd say that's likely. But still, it has to end somewhere; something must've come out of nothing at some point. Unless it was "always" there.

[deleted_user0]

but at this point I consider the existence of the Christian God to be as likely as the infinite other explanations about why we are here.

Such as?

mrs. lejenda still dodging questions. somethings never change. too funneeeee

[AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE]

But still, it has to end somewhere; something must've come out of nothing at some point. Unless it was "always" there.

keep in mind that time is a very relative "human" concept (theory of relativity) for THIS universe, which works different on different scales, if there was no time "before" the big bang, then there also never was a beginning and nothing must have come out of anything, shit is just there..

(hard to imagine as a human though, just look at light, for light itself time doesnt pass at all in his own relative system since it travels at lightspeed, so there basically is no time for light, or at least you can say that time is not a factor for light.. my english is too bad to talk about this shit rlly, but you get the point, wherever the big bang came from, it might be possible that time just isnt a thing, and so there is no end and no beginning..technically there wasnt even a "before" before the big bang, because there was no time or space before it)

[lejend]

mrs. lejenda still dodging questions. somethings never change. too funneeeee

It could have come out of nowhere from our perspective, but not really. Imagine being a character in a game, and a monster spawns ahead of you. As far as the information in the game universe goes, that monster appeared completely out of nowhere. After all, the game universe has no way of reaching beyond it into the software that generated the monster.
Could be like that with the big bang. It could be that whatever generated it is outside of our scope of reality. I'd say that's likely. But still, it has to end somewhere; something must've come out of nothing at some point. Unless it was "always" there.

What do you think "it" is?

phpBB [video]

[deleted_user0]

[Goodspeed]

It could have come out of nowhere from our perspective, but not really. Imagine being a character in a game, and a monster spawns ahead of you. As far as the information in the game universe goes, that monster appeared completely out of nowhere. After all, the game universe has no way of reaching beyond it into the software that generated the monster.
Could be like that with the big bang. It could be that whatever generated it is outside of our scope of reality. I'd say that's likely. But still, it has to end somewhere; something must've come out of nothing at some point. Unless it was "always" there.

What do you think "it" is?

Existence

[_RDX_]

I heard that 'Big bang theory' created the universe. Is that true? I wish I could be an atheist, because religion brings disunity among people.