Charges Filed: Trump Campaign Russian Ties

[JakeyBoyTH]

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ looks like this thread is derailed!

[n0el]

So........ on balance that was worth killing 50 million people for or not? China's GDP per head is below mexicos even though it has doubled in a decade- since they allowed some form of capitalism

Barely. On that note Norway has a higher per capita GDP then the US. And Norway along with the other Nordic countries are much more socialist. So seems like the US should move towards Socialism in the Nordic sense!

[Gendarme]

@JakeyBoyTH I'll derail your ass with my voltigeur-rifle if you don't stop. This is a highly interesting discussion of the utmost importance between Clinton-haters and Trump-haters, but mysteriously somehow lacking supporters for either person.

[n0el]

@JakeyBoyTH I'll derail your ass with my voltigeur-rifle if you don't stop. This is a highly interesting discussion of the utmost importance between Clinton-haters and Trump-haters, but mysteriously somehow lacking supporters for either person.

True. WE need Clinton supporter @fightinfrenchman to chime in.

[Mr_Bramboy]

No developed European countries are socialist. Maybe portugal qualifies but not really, it has constitutional references but isn't actually socialist. Take your pick from Laos ,NK, China, Cuba and Vietnam if you want to live in a real socialist hellhole- I will admit that Europe is going that way though.
Socialism= slavery. You have been brainwashed into thinking that socialism =social democracy.

Tell me precisely in which E.U. countries the workers either own or own the fruits of the means of production?

Capitalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive. All western european countries have elements of socialism in their government, for example healthcare (a concept that has been proven to work in dozens of countries for decades, but a concept that the United States still refuse to accept.)

The countries you're naming are hardly practicing socialism or communism. All of those countries have a totalitarian regime under the disguise of communism.

How is Europe going that way? Socialism in Europe is fine as it is and is hardly being developed anywhere. In The Netherlands, we just elected the same right wing government for the third time in a row. Make no mistake: lots of western european countries are very right leaning, but we have a sense of human decency that the majority of the American people lack. The most left leaning party in the Netherlands, and the successor of the Dutch communism party, only got 9 out of 150 seats in parliament during the most recent elections.

[Gendarme]

Capitalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive.

I've been patiently waiting during the past few years for someone to finally say this.

[deleted_user]

More things shold be theoretically derived and then empirically amended. I bet economics cold benefit from this. It seems like a pretty solid way to approach problems in general.

[spanky4ever]

@oats13 said:

So........ on balance that was worth killing 50 million people for or not?

I dont have the figures, but prolly, yes - if you take in to concideration what the living conditions where, and the live expectencies.

[JakeyBoyTH]

@oats13 said:

So........ on balance that was worth killing 50 million people for or not?

I dont have the figures, but prolly, yes - if you take in to concideration what the living conditions where, and the live expectencies.

>:( Killing people is never ethical.

[deleted_user]

Now that is simply false!

[deleted_user]

oh nvm I forgot you have been nuking your accounts more than me and literally take nothing serious anymore.

sorry for indulging you!

[JakeyBoyTH]

oh nvm I forgot yo have been nking yor acconts more than me and literally take nothing serios anymore

sorry for indlging yo!

On this occasion i'm serious. You can't really justify the killing of 50 million people for progress.

[deleted_user]

But you didn't say that. You said "killing is never ethical"

[JakeyBoyTH]

But you didn't say that. You said "killing is never ethical"

Can you not see the context? Killing is never ethical regardless.

[deleted_user]

Please make yourself more clear in the future such that when you say "killing is never ethical" you really mean "killing 50 million people for this reason is unethical" because those are two very different meanings and I can't possibly understand that you mean the one and not the other based upon the words alone you've typed.

But you do also mean the other so this is very awkward. Killing is certainly ethical in certain situations. If we hold the right to deprive someone of their liberties indefinitely (life sentences) then we very much hold the right to use force to do so - including up to death.

And that's probably the weakest argument I could use even!

[JakeyBoyTH]

Please make yourself more clear in the future such that when you say "killing is never ethical" you really mean "killing 50 million people for this reason is unethical" because those are two very different meanings and I can't possibly understand that you mean the one and not the other based upon the words alone you've typed.

But you do also mean the other so this is very awkward. Killing is certainly ethical in certain situations. If we hold the right to deprive someone of their liberties indefinitely (life sentences) then we very much hold the right to use force to do so - including up to death.

And that's probably the weakest argument I could use even!

Its pretty clear when i'm quoting. Its not that hard to infer.
The US is very backwards in terms of the death penalty.

[deleted_user]

The US's stance on the death penalty in various states is not what is moral truth.

Besides, the death penalty is one of the lesser uses of lethal force - obvious moral guidelines come into play well before then.

[JakeyBoyTH]

The US's stance on the death penalty in various states is not what is moral truth.

Besides, the death penalty is one of the lesser uses of lethal force - obvious moral guidelines come into play well before then.

I think this is a topic for another time and probably well beyond me. I am probably a bit tired sorry. :(

[deleted_user]

Have a good night

[JakeyBoyTH]

its 1:52 pm

[oats13]

No developed European countries are socialist. Maybe portugal qualifies but not really, it has constitutional references but isn't actually socialist. Take your pick from Laos ,NK, China, Cuba and Vietnam if you want to live in a real socialist hellhole- I will admit that Europe is going that way though.
Socialism= slavery. You have been brainwashed into thinking that socialism =social democracy.

Tell me precisely in which E.U. countries the workers either own or own the fruits of the means of production?

Capitalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive. All western european countries have elements of socialism in their government, for example healthcare (a concept that has been proven to work in dozens of countries for decades, but a concept that the United States still refuse to accept.)

The countries you're naming are hardly practicing socialism or communism. All of those countries have a totalitarian regime under the disguise of communism.

How is Europe going that way? Socialism in Europe is fine as it is and is hardly being developed anywhere. In The Netherlands, we just elected the same right wing government for the third time in a row. Make no mistake: lots of western european countries are very right leaning, but we have a sense of human decency that the majority of the American people lack. The most left leaning party in the Netherlands, and the successor of the Dutch communism party, only got 9 out of 150 seats in parliament during the most recent elections.

It is as I suspected-put simply what you think is socialism in in fact social democracy.

Step 1. Read about ACTUAL socialism

Step 2. Realise that you are actually a social democrat-

Social health care is NOT a socialist policy, in Britain it was jointly developed by the tories and liberals and then was put into the 1945 manifesto by each of the main parties, labour won and introduced the first phase of the program and the tories finished off the implementation later, that same Labour govt also left the country in recession just like all nine times labour has been in power here- nine labour govts. and nine recessions...........

Look at the whole paradigm in terms of income tax and place ultra free-market libertarianism at one end with zero income tax and put total state socialism at the other end with 100% income tax effectively no private property i.e. socialism- most European countries have highest tax bands somewhere in the middle of this, debating where you put the taxation level in a capitalist free market country with private ownership and a monarchy i.e the Netherlands is NOT a socialist debate it is a social democratic one.

If by any chance you read Marx and decide that it is actually what you believe in then by all means join a commune- provided there is enough 'social capital' they can actually work small scale.

But anyone who thinks it is possible to impose from the top down such a thing on an already democratic free market industrialised nation in which most people don't actually want socialism is living in cloud cuckoo land. Unfortunately for Britain Jeremy Corbyn and John Mcdonald are two such people and this is why it is important to know exactly what is socialism and what is social democracy- because in America you might vote for Bernie Sanders thinking you are getting socialism when in fact he is a social democrat and in Britain many naive youngsters are voting for Corbyn thinking they are going to get more social democracy when what they will in fact get is a disastrous attempt at actual socialism.

In Europe there were countries under socialism such as hungary and poland who don't want to go back and are turning 'right' so to speak........ this is why the hard left in Britain actually voted for brexit contrary to the popular narrative- yes the left made brexit happen- 70% of labour constituencies voted for brexit.

The idea that western european democracies owe their any part of their monetary or well-being 'wealth' to socialism is utterly preposterous, they owe it to progressive reforms on voting,rights and freedoms which are allied to consistent values, the good organisation of resource use and, yes, the exploitation of others' resources.

[momuuu]

Eventually socialism will rule. It just takes time. Eventually people will realize that effort and wealth are not as correlated as the establishment claims and eventually they will realize that they have to work hard so that some lucky people at the end of the chain can profit from their hard work.

[oats13]

So........ on balance that was worth killing 50 million people for or not? China's GDP per head is below mexicos even though it has doubled in a decade- since they allowed some form of capitalism

Barely. On that note Norway has a higher per capita GDP then the US. And Norway along with the other Nordic countries are much more socialist. So seems like the US should move towards Socialism in the Nordic sense!

Norway is not socialist! it is a parliamentary representative democratic constitutional monarchy. spank already effectively confirmed this.

The nordic countries are not 'more socialist' they simply have slightly higher income tax.

[oats13]

@oats13 said:

So........ on balance that was worth killing 50 million people for or not?

I dont have the figures, but prolly, yes - if you take in to concideration what the living conditions where, and the live expectencies.

Well at least you are honest about it somewhat like the recently deceased Eric Hobsbawm, the respected academic historian, author of bestselling books, and lifelong Marxist was interviewed for the Times Literary Supplement about his youthful commitment to Stalin. The interviewer asked “What that comes down to is saying that had the radiant tomorrow actually been created, the loss of fifteen, twenty million people might have been justified?”

Eric Hobsbawm replied instantly; “Yes”

pls let this sink in.

[momuuu]

Russia was as much totalitarian as it was communist, if not more.