Neoliberalism is the answer

[Goodspeed]

Capitalism needs competent regulators. I think we do okay here, it just got very out of hand in the USA specifically.
Long term, widespread automation is going to destroy the job market which means the system quite simply will not work anymore. Basic income guaranteed by the government will be a necessity. For the govt to finance this, a lot of very un-capitalistic things need to be done. So we do need to distance ourselves from the system at least a little bit so we are more prepared to take necessary measures in the future. What they say about capitalism is true. It's shit, but it's the best we have right now. In the future though, this is likely to change.
So I don't "feel lost politically". I lean left not because I want to seize the means of production, but because it is my opinion that we are going to need more extensive social security, more regulation and much higher taxes on the rich in the future. In the USA you already are in desperate need of this.

The political debate seems to be mostly ignoring the alarming and fast growing issue of job automation and the effects that it has on free market capitalism. That, or I overestimate it. It's just that, wherever I look, I see so many jobs that will be automated within 10 years. And AI is only getting smarter from here.

[deleted_user]

Everyone should just read and only read and write too and the global economy will be largely entirely be based off the exchange of literature and also everyone will live happily ever after. Can't automate that. (although they can try: https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechcon ... hese-poems). I actually got sonnet 5 wrong :(

[Jam]

Doing nice things should be our currency. You could still be a jerk too, but it would cost you.

[jesus3]

Capitalism needs competent regulators. I think we do okay here, it just got very out of hand in the USA specifically.
Long term, widespread automation is going to destroy the job market which means the system quite simply will not work anymore. Basic income guaranteed by the government will be a necessity. For the govt to finance this, a lot of very un-capitalistic things need to be done. So we do need to distance ourselves from the system at least a little bit so we are more prepared to take necessary measures in the future. What they say about capitalism is true. It's shit, but it's the best we have right now. In the future though, this is likely to change.
So I don't "feel lost politically". I lean left not because I want to seize the means of production, but because it is my opinion that we are going to need more extensive social security, more regulation and much higher taxes on the rich in the future. In the USA you already are in desperate need of this.

The political debate seems to be mostly ignoring the alarming and fast growing issue of job automation and the effects that it has on free market capitalism. That, or I overestimate it. It's just that, wherever I look, I see so many jobs that will be automated within 10 years. And AI is only getting smarter from here.

While I agree on your point regarding capitalism in itself, I disagree on the automation thing. Job automation historically has of course been removing certain jobs, mostly of manual and repetitive nature, but even more new job lines were created due to automation and digitalisation, it never lived up to the doomsday scenarios portrayed by the media and politicians promising to "create jobs" while campaigning.

One thing is for sure though: People will have to become smarter in general to make a living since manual labor as well as easy (and even some harder like law related) comprehensive and analytical jobs will be taken over by automation and AI. Mentally (or rather: intellectually) demanding jobs as well as ethics and other empathy-related jobs will rise imo.

[Laurence Drake]

Everyone should just read and only read and write too and the global economy will be largely entirely be based off the exchange of literature and also everyone will live happily ever after. Can't automate that. (although they can try: https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechcon ... hese-poems). I actually got sonnet 5 wrong :(

Yeah but most people suck at writing so this would be a highly unequal economy.

[Goodspeed]

While I agree on your point regarding capitalism in itself, I disagree on the automation thing. Job automation historically has of course been removing certain jobs, mostly of manual and repetitive nature, but even more new job lines were created due to automation and digitalisation, it never lived up to the doomsday scenarios

It hasn't so far, but AI development is only just beginning. There's a big difference in impact between automating repetitive tasks and automating more complex tasks. When AI becomes intelligent enough, its applications will be endless and at that point it will live up to the "doomsday scenarios". I don't see them as doomsday scenarios, although it certainly would be the doom of free market capitalism. That system, in time, will make room for one where people can live their lives without slaving away for 40h a week.

[spanky4ever]

Who should benefit for AI and mashines taking over the jobs that are hard, boring, dirty etc etc?? Why should the superrich get that benefit? And what will happen to the worker then? All layed off, and goverment with so little income that there will be no social security left?
Why not: 6 hour work day, and worker taking over the industry chares
hell yeah
6 multinational companies (this is the way things are going now) with a few ppl owning it, is def not what we want for the future

[oats13]

Capitalism needs competent regulators. I think we do okay here, it just got very out of hand in the USA specifically.
Long term, widespread automation is going to destroy the job market which means the system quite simply will not work anymore. Basic income guaranteed by the government will be a necessity. For the govt to finance this, a lot of very un-capitalistic things need to be done. So we do need to distance ourselves from the system at least a little bit so we are more prepared to take necessary measures in the future. What they say about capitalism is true. It's shit, but it's the best we have right now. In the future though, this is likely to change.
So I don't "feel lost politically". I lean left not because I want to seize the means of production, but because it is my opinion that we are going to need more extensive social security, more regulation and much higher taxes on the rich in the future. In the USA you already are in desperate need of this.

The political debate seems to be mostly ignoring the alarming and fast growing issue of job automation and the effects that it has on free market capitalism. That, or I overestimate it. It's just that, wherever I look, I see so many jobs that will be automated within 10 years. And AI is only getting smarter from here.

This is a reasoned argument and might be right and ofc might be wrong- I slightly disagree but it is not the issue at hand- the point is that it represents sensible moderate left/liberalism which is still capable of dialogue with sensible moderate conservatism- an ability to balance the the need to embrace the new destination with the need to moderate the pace of acceleration towards said destination in order to minimalise social disruption- this is how functional countries generally operate.

[deleted_user]

I'll likely be dead before any significant issues become significant.

We were really born in the best generation huh fam

[Laurence Drake]

Born just in time to shitpost on ESOC

[n0el]

While I agree on your point regarding capitalism in itself, I disagree on the automation thing. Job automation historically has of course been removing certain jobs, mostly of manual and repetitive nature, but even more new job lines were created due to automation and digitalisation, it never lived up to the doomsday scenarios

It hasn't so far, but AI development is only just beginning. There's a big difference in impact between automating repetitive tasks and automating more complex tasks. When AI becomes intelligent enough, its applications will be endless and at that point it will live up to the "doomsday scenarios". I don't see them as doomsday scenarios, although it certainly would be the doom of free market capitalism. That system, in time, will make room for one where people can live their lives without slaving away for 40h a week.

The biggest issue is that so far, automation has disrupted mainly unskilled, non educated labor. Not saying this isn't an issue, but those people tend to have one of the weakest voices in the big scheme of things (even if they represent a vast majority). It will change when AI disrupts skilled, white collar jobs like lawyers, doctors, programmers, etc...

[lejend]

Do you often feel lost, politically?

No. How can you be lost if you have principles? Only people who treat politics as a sport have a need for a label or team. Such people are typically low-info voters who don't have a coherent political worldview. Their numbers have increased significantly in recent years. Back in the old days, you'd be ridiculed for discussing politics. It was the realm of professionals and old people. Nowadays, however, everyone has an opinion, no matter how uninformed, to include celebrity imbeciles and teenage girls on Twitter. Jonah Goldberg called this the lifestylization of politics; politics as a lifestyle. Jsut pick a team and fight for it, right? You simply can't reason with them. It's all about drama to them. It is mostly a leftist phenomenon, but can be found on the right as well: the_dnoald, kekistan, etc. It's just a lifestyle. It's like Die Welle.

[Laurence Drake]

While I agree on your point regarding capitalism in itself, I disagree on the automation thing. Job automation historically has of course been removing certain jobs, mostly of manual and repetitive nature, but even more new job lines were created due to automation and digitalisation, it never lived up to the doomsday scenarios

It hasn't so far, but AI development is only just beginning. There's a big difference in impact between automating repetitive tasks and automating more complex tasks. When AI becomes intelligent enough, its applications will be endless and at that point it will live up to the "doomsday scenarios". I don't see them as doomsday scenarios, although it certainly would be the doom of free market capitalism. That system, in time, will make room for one where people can live their lives without slaving away for 40h a week.

The biggest issue is that so far, automation has disrupted mainly unskilled, non educated labor. Not saying this isn't an issue, but those people tend to have one of the weakest voices in the big scheme of things (even if they represent a vast majority). It will change when AI disrupts skilled, white collar jobs like lawyers, doctors, programmers, etc...

What will happen when ESOC mods are automated away?

[n0el]

Would be nice.

[fightinfrenchman]

Back in the old days, you'd be ridiculed for discussing politics. It was the realm of professionals and old people. Nowadays, however, everyone has an opinion, no matter how uninformed...

Yeah tell me about it!

[jesus3]

oh I see the goofy-fraction has found this thread now, too. Great.

@Goodspeed I'm looking forward to seeing that! But as always, it will be a gradual change followed by official laws much later