Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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A huge pile of bae.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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Snuden wrote:A huge pile of bae.

you're so funny
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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Thx.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by lordraphael »

deleted_user wrote:i nthink the poly party system of germany is just huge crap.

could be i dont think theres a better option tho.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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lordraphael wrote:
deleted_user wrote:i nthink the poly party system of germany is just huge crap.

could be i dont think theres a better option tho.

how about the usa two party system?
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by lordraphael »

deleted_user wrote:
lordraphael wrote:
deleted_user wrote:i nthink the poly party system of germany is just huge crap.

could be i dont think theres a better option tho.

how about the usa two party system?

it sucks
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by deleted_user »

lordraphael wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
Show hidden quotes

how about the usa two party system?

it sucks

yeah that's true
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by spanky4ever »

Snuden wrote:The US election is (unfortunately) not irrelevant for the rest of the world, it is after all still the biggest economy in the world.
Their strong military presence around the world is also something their allies benefit from.


True on both accounts :o

What if USA half their military presense and half their budget? and put all those soldiers to work on getting ppl clean water instead?
One can dream, right :P
Btw, if they did actually do that, they would still be the biggest spender on military, by far :devilrazz:
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by fightinfrenchman »

@spanky4ever I just wanted you to admit that the Democrats are better than the Republicans
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:There's no answer to that question though. Compared to European politics, republicans are far-right whereas democrats are slightly right. Spanky doesn't have a party that would suit her. Image

Either way, I don't see why spanky even cares. American elections are irrelevant for the developed parts of the world.


This post gave me cancer
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by spanky4ever »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:There's no answer to that question though. Compared to European politics, republicans are far-right whereas democrats are slightly right. Spanky doesn't have a party that would suit her. Image

Either way, I don't see why spanky even cares. American elections are irrelevant for the developed parts of the world.


This post gave me cancer

I found it quite interesting, and accurate.
What do you not agree with?
Anyways, I hope there will be enough ppl elected, to change the "cancer" picture :ohmy:
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

fightinfrenchman wrote:This post gave me cancer

That's too bad. Thankfully it'll only cost a couple of tons for the required healthcare. God bless the free U.S.A.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:This post gave me cancer

That's too bad. Thankfully it'll only cost a couple of tons for the required healthcare. God bless the free U.S.A.


Democrats and Republicans feel the same way about healthcare. A truly galaxy brain take
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by gibson »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:There's no answer to that question though. Compared to European politics, republicans are far-right whereas democrats are slightly right. Spanky doesn't have a party that would suit her. Image

Either way, I don't see why spanky even cares. American elections are irrelevant for the developed parts of the world.
about half of that(the middle part) is right. Also if you think us elections are irrelevant for the rest of the world you clearly don't understand anything about global economics or the environment
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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Imagine listing "hostility to Russia" as 1.) something Republicans agree on and 2.) a bad thing.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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Also imagine listing "outlaw 3rd parties" as a serious point of discussion
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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It's actually less than half but I just ignored the ones that made no sense
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by duckzilla »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:Either way, I don't see why spanky even cares. American elections are irrelevant for the developed parts of the world.

Unfortunately not.

An example could be the election of Bush who started the Iraq war after 9/11. It is highly questionable whether Al Gore would have reacted in the same way. By starting the Iraq war without any proper objective or idea what to do with the country after victory, Bush triggered a chain of events which started with islamist insurgencies, followed by counter-insurgency measures which further antagonized the population, de-stabilization of the whole region, power vacuums filled by islamists, founding of ISIS, mass murders, ISIS joining the Syrian war, Syrians seeking refuge --> refugee crisis in Europe --> Brexit vote fuelled by anti-immigrant/-refugee slogans --> right-wing parties on the rise --> decline of major parties in basically all big EU countries --> ?

Even if you argue that this chain of events is not the sole driver of the above outcomes, it is unquestionable (to me :P ) that it plays a role. Today we have a Donald Trump who may or may not start a war, e.g. with Iran. The outcome could be comparable.

The Obama years, although obviously not without flaws, were far better for international governance. Mainly, because he did not disregard the existing governance architecture, which the US founded themselves (UN, NATO, IMF, etc.), and he was more reliable to follow consistent policies.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by fightinfrenchman »

duckzilla wrote:The Obama years, although obviously not without flaws, were far better for international governance.


But have you considered that ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME???!?!?!?!?!? NEOLIBERALISM IMPERIALISM !?!?!?!?!?
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

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Post by duckzilla »

iwillspankyou wrote:Where should I start :unsure:
I think the inequality in vages and property are really bad, and need to change. I think that it will have a deep impact on the global economy if it continues like it have been for the last 40 years. We will all suffer, not only the ppl of USA.
For your sake, I really hope that you will get a healtcare system, that prevent ppl from actually dying, cos they do not have insurance, OR they risk being put on the street when they have healthinsurance, but have to pay high deductables.
I hope a new shift in political climate, will support switching to more green energy, and that the USA can be a spearhead, instead of a nation that give full speed to more carbon being burned.
I hope that you will get an education system that give every student, whatever their parents earn, the possibility for a higher education.
I hope that the politician you elect, actually work for you, instead of their doners, meaning that money should be banned in politics.

That was some of my hopes. I know that it will prolly not all happen very soon, but the fire has been lid, and I think more and more ppl are being aware that they are getting screwd over by the ppl they elect.

If you take a look at the issues that Bernie Sanders ran on in 2016, most of my answers will be resonating with that.

I think what you are hoping for is far more than a specific election outcome. For any of these things to happen, the US (taken as a whole) would need to change its value system and culture.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that, for instance, individual success is valued differently in the US and in Europe. While it seems that people in the US consider individual success as the result of unique skills/talent/effort, many europeans seem to believe that these individual traits are not the sole explanatory factors for success. Things like the societal constitution, social background and luck also play an important role. The implications of these different views are striking. Inequality can be seen as a reflection of unique traits/effort/skills on the one side and mediocrity/laziness on the other side. But it can also be seen as a reflection of the societal composition, allowing people who fit to a 'societal standard' (blond, blue-eyed, tall, christian, etc.) to thrive much easier than people with deviating characteristics (e.g. muslim, foreign background, etc.). On top of this, you can argue that people who are born into an already successful family (can) have many advantages over their peers: better education due to private schools and parents who attach more importance to it, easier access to career advancing (e.g. parental) networks, less financial constraints for higher education/internships/studies abroad/international experience.

To me, the American Dream seems to be the hope that the first interpretation of inequality is true: you can overcome it by effort and talent. Hence, everyone who is not successful can be blamed himself, e.g. for being lazy. Taking this view means that policies of redistribution (universal healthcare and education can be seen as this) are strongly disfavoured, because you unfairly take the money from the guys who put a lot of effort into working to finance the lazy guys.
The second interpretation of equality differentiates more. It is open to observations such as: there are successful people who neither have talent nor put a lot of effort into anything/there are unsuccessful people who are talented and put a lot of effort into it. If it is not solely the effort you put into something or the talent you have which allow for success, then there seem to be other reasons (e.g. societal structure). Hence, redistribution measures are seen as an attempt to alleviate or make up for unequal starting conditions.

I guess the people in the US already know that the country is quite polarized on issues like this. The lack of more parties in its election system does not really help to overcome polarization, since the only two parties have a strong incentive to choose one side and become polarized themselves. A third party would have the strategic incentive to cover the middle ground again and to find solutions which are bearable for the whole society. This is what I would like to hope for the US.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by fightinfrenchman »

@duckzilla Third parties are not a realistic option in the current US system. Either hope for something more realistic or just start paying attention to something more realistic
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by spanky4ever »

fightinfrenchman wrote:@duckzilla Third parties are not a realistic option in the current US system. Either hope for something more realistic or just start paying attention to something more realistic


unfortunatly you are prolly right :(
IF Sanders had gone over to Green Party, after being so shamlesly treated by Dem leadership in 2015/2016, things could maybe have been different? But Sanders is a faithful person who stick to his promises.
I would wish for a 3 party though, it could revitalize US politics in a big way, and be just what the doctor ordered :P
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by duckzilla »

fightinfrenchman wrote:@duckzilla Third parties are not a realistic option in the current US system. Either hope for something more realistic or just start paying attention to something more realistic

It may not be very likely to happen in the next years, but the longer the country and its political landscape is as polarized the more people will grow frustrated by the lack of progress. This is fertile soil for new parties to emerge, which can either introduce a three-party system or replace one of the old parties.

The widespread belief that a third party is not a realistic option is exactly the reason why a third party is not a realistic option. This fits quite well to the democratic/republican agenda of keeping a two-party system. But beliefs can change and sometimes pressure on a political system can be high enough to rule out alternatives.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by lordraphael »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
duckzilla wrote:The Obama years, although obviously not without flaws, were far better for international governance.


But have you considered that ALL SIDES ARE THE SAME???!?!?!?!?!? NEOLIBERALISM IMPERIALISM !?!?!?!?!?

such a troll
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Mid term election in USA could have big importance to us all

Post by spanky4ever »

duckzilla wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:Where should I start :unsure:
I think the inequality in vages and property are really bad, and need to change. I think that it will have a deep impact on the global economy if it continues like it have been for the last 40 years. We will all suffer, not only the ppl of USA.
For your sake, I really hope that you will get a healtcare system, that prevent ppl from actually dying, cos they do not have insurance, OR they risk being put on the street when they have healthinsurance, but have to pay high deductables.
I hope a new shift in political climate, will support switching to more green energy, and that the USA can be a spearhead, instead of a nation that give full speed to more carbon being burned.
I hope that you will get an education system that give every student, whatever their parents earn, the possibility for a higher education.
I hope that the politician you elect, actually work for you, instead of their doners, meaning that money should be banned in politics.

That was some of my hopes. I know that it will prolly not all happen very soon, but the fire has been lid, and I think more and more ppl are being aware that they are getting screwd over by the ppl they elect.

If you take a look at the issues that Bernie Sanders ran on in 2016, most of my answers will be resonating with that.

I think what you are hoping for is far more than a specific election outcome. For any of these things to happen, the US (taken as a whole) would need to change its value system and culture.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that, for instance, individual success is valued differently in the US and in Europe. While it seems that people in the US consider individual success as the result of unique skills/talent/effort, many europeans seem to believe that these individual traits are not the sole explanatory factors for success. Things like the societal constitution, social background and luck also play an important role. The implications of these different views are striking. Inequality can be seen as a reflection of unique traits/effort/skills on the one side and mediocrity/laziness on the other side. But it can also be seen as a reflection of the societal composition, allowing people who fit to a 'societal standard' (blond, blue-eyed, tall, christian, etc.) to thrive much easier than people with deviating characteristics (e.g. muslim, foreign background, etc.). On top of this, you can argue that people who are born into an already successful family (can) have many advantages over their peers: better education due to private schools and parents who attach more importance to it, easier access to career advancing (e.g. parental) networks, less financial constraints for higher education/internships/studies abroad/international experience.

To me, the American Dream seems to be the hope that the first interpretation of inequality is true: you can overcome it by effort and talent. Hence, everyone who is not successful can be blamed himself, e.g. for being lazy. Taking this view means that policies of redistribution (universal healthcare and education can be seen as this) are strongly disfavoured, because you unfairly take the money from the guys who put a lot of effort into working to finance the lazy guys.
The second interpretation of equality differentiates more. It is open to observations such as: there are successful people who neither have talent nor put a lot of effort into anything/there are unsuccessful people who are talented and put a lot of effort into it. If it is not solely the effort you put into something or the talent you have which allow for success, then there seem to be other reasons (e.g. societal structure). Hence, redistribution measures are seen as an attempt to alleviate or make up for unequal starting conditions.

I guess the people in the US already know that the country is quite polarized on issues like this. The lack of more parties in its election system does not really help to overcome polarization, since the only two parties have a strong incentive to choose one side and become polarized themselves. A third party would have the strategic incentive to cover the middle ground again and to find solutions which are bearable for the whole society. This is what I would like to hope for the US.


I do think you make good arguments here, and are pinpointing some real differences in US and EU culture.
But, I also think that this is about to change, in a big way.
We see teacher strikes in very many states, and the workers unions are starting to get more focus, and hopefully also members.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... bor-unions

The vast majority of Americans, 70 percent, now support Medicare-for-all, otherwise known as single-payer health care, according to a new Reuters survey. That includes 85 percent of Democrats and 52 percent of Republicans. Only 20 percent of Americans say they outright oppose the idea.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-am ... ition.html

There are a surge in the numbers of woman running for election this fall, and most of them are running on a progressive agenda, like the one Sanders was promoting.
I think that even though Sanders was not elected, and we got Trump instead, he has hammered in some real arguments in ppl mind, and they have taken root.

The inequality is the highest it has ever been before, at any time and any place. This cannot last, and it is not sustainable. Hell, even a lot of billionares have the same openion (Bill Gates and Warren Buffett).

You should also remember that it was president Roosevelts, in the 1930s who made dramatic changes in the US society, the so-called NEW DEAL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal
He was forced to make these changes by the workers union - they where threathening with general strikes and a possible riot/take over of government if he did not comply. He also told the union leaders; "you have to make me do these changes" - and they did :!:

The Republicans, and also Democratic party since Bill Clinton in the 80s, backed up with big money interests have spent decades to tear it down again.

The question is; will the citizens of USA make their voices heard again? How will it effect the mid term election? Can the Democratic party once more create enough enthusiasm so that the ppl who have given up on politics, come out to vote??
Right now I see that the leaderships of Democratic party are opposing and doing their best to sabotage reform-friendly candidates within the party. If this continue, there will not be a massive turnout Im afraid.
But the thought of a new way of politics and a more fair distrubution of wealt an income, has been seeded, and it will not go away any time soon.
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