Do you believe in the death penalty?

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

zoom wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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Yes it is, I know many people who argue that both are the same and that rapists should be sentenced to life/death.
Do you know of any relevant place where rape is considered a crime equally harsh to murder?

With that said, I don't think it's unreasonable to hand out life-sentences to unrehabilitatable rapists, even though the crime is less serious than some others – it's still plenty serious.

I don't know if it's a relevant place xD but I just checked and in France the average sentence for a rape is 9 years, and 10 for a murder
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by zoom »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
zoom wrote:
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Do you know of any relevant place where rape is considered a crime equally harsh to murder?

With that said, I don't think it's unreasonable to hand out life-sentences to unrehabilitatable rapists, even though the crime is less serious than some others – it's still plenty serious.

I don't know if it's a relevant place xD but I just checked and in France the average sentence for a rape is 9 years, and 10 for a murder
I see. That's absurd, seemingly. Although France is borderline irrelevant.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by Gendarme »

Well, your average rape could be very severe while your average murder isn't (e.g. hot-blooded murder and cold-blooded rape). Furthermore, does the length of the sentence necessarily reflect on the severity of the crime? I doubt that.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by zoom »

I doubt the average rape is full Bengal (feat. the murder of eight year olds), which is case in point in the first place – the gruesome level of violence involved, not just the lack of consent. In other words, while both are horrible acts of violence, it proves in itself that murder is more severe a crime, I'd argue.

Apart from that, degrees of murder are already being distinquished between – possibly even in France – so I fail to see your point.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Gendarme wrote:Well, your average rape could be very severe while your average murder isn't (e.g. hot-blooded murder and cold-blooded rape). Furthermore, does the length of the sentence necessarily reflect on the severity of the crime? I doubt that.

That's without considering life sentences. So severe rapes (12yo rapes, violent rapes etc) and cold-blooded murders are both sentenced to life and thus don't fit in these statistics.

Still, it shows that according to the French Justice, rapes and murders are almost the same.

To your question, I'd answer that theorically, the sentence should necessarily reflect the severity of the crime.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by Ashvin »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, in my opinion (and that's going to be a very controversial one, I know that), rape isn't like a murder at all. Of course it's violent, and of course it hurts someone, but today for some reasons (feminism and the rape occurency being the 2 main reasons) people think that rapists and murderers are the same.
And they're not. Rape is a crime, but raped woman can live after a rape, they definitely can not after getting murdered. That's why I think that a rape sentence should be somewhere between 5 and 10 years of prison, and definitely not life sentence, death penalty or cutting their dicks lol.

Funny you didn't even consider the mental state of the victim. Mental illness is as serious as any other illness.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by zoom »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Gendarme wrote:Well, your average rape could be very severe while your average murder isn't (e.g. hot-blooded murder and cold-blooded rape). Furthermore, does the length of the sentence necessarily reflect on the severity of the crime? I doubt that.

That's without considering life sentences. So severe rapes (12yo rapes, violent rapes etc) and cold-blooded murders are both sentenced to life and thus don't fit in these statistics.

Still, it shows that according to the French Justice, rapes and murders are almost the same.

To your question, I'd answer that theorically, the sentence should necessarily reflect the severity of the crime.
That, and the urgency to exclude a given criminal from society, I'd argue. In theory, that is.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ashvin wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, in my opinion (and that's going to be a very controversial one, I know that), rape isn't like a murder at all. Of course it's violent, and of course it hurts someone, but today for some reasons (feminism and the rape occurency being the 2 main reasons) people think that rapists and murderers are the same.
And they're not. Rape is a crime, but raped woman can live after a rape, they definitely can not after getting murdered. That's why I think that a rape sentence should be somewhere between 5 and 10 years of prison, and definitely not life sentence, death penalty or cutting their dicks lol.

Funny you didn't even consider the mental state of the victim. Mental illness is as serious as any other illness.

First, it's not like all the raped woman end up suffering from mental illness, it's quite rare.
And also, being ill is always better than being dead, so it's quite obvious to me that rapes and murders don't fit in the same category. I'm not saying that rapes shouldn't be punished, just arguing that I think that the rape sentences are too big.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by zoom »

I understand rape is commonly trauma-inducing.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

zoom wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Gendarme wrote:Well, your average rape could be very severe while your average murder isn't (e.g. hot-blooded murder and cold-blooded rape). Furthermore, does the length of the sentence necessarily reflect on the severity of the crime? I doubt that.

That's without considering life sentences. So severe rapes (12yo rapes, violent rapes etc) and cold-blooded murders are both sentenced to life and thus don't fit in these statistics.

Still, it shows that according to the French Justice, rapes and murders are almost the same.

To your question, I'd answer that theorically, the sentence should necessarily reflect the severity of the crime.
That, and the urgency to exclude a given criminal from society, I'd argue. In theory, that is.

The urgency to exclude a given criminal from society and the severity of the crime are very linked, almost the same I'd say.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by zoom »

I don't think they are, in practice. Especially considering the former is related to the case in question at least as much as it is related to the nature of the crime; one criminal of a given kind may be entirely different from another of the same kind in its ability to rehabilitate, to society. As far as I'm aware, this is only taken into consideration regarding commuting sentences previously handed out (the legal maximum penalty remains the same, entirely dependent on the nature of the crime in question).
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by Radix_Lecti »

The end goal of a prison sentence should be atonement.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by spanky4ever »

Ashvin wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:To you @gibson who want to cut the dick of ppl who are serial rapists? Here is one thought; If I where to be a rapist, and did it again, It would prolly be safer to kill the woman, so she could not tell on me, - so I could save my dick. This kind of thinking would only make the lives of woman even more un-safe

Im surprised this comment comes from a woman. To counter your statement I'd say killing the victim is always safe for the rapist because RAPE IS A CRIME WHICH WILL LEAD TO SOME PUNUSHMENT lol. They know they are doing wrong and if they're caught they are dead(not literally).


As a woman I would be even more in danger, if the rapist new that the punishment would be this harsh - thats all I am saying. should not be hard to understand (comming from a woman :roll:)
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by deleted_user0 »

Ashvin wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:To you @gibson who want to cut the dick of ppl who are serial rapists? Here is one thought; If I where to be a rapist, and did it again, It would prolly be safer to kill the woman, so she could not tell on me, - so I could save my dick. This kind of thinking would only make the lives of woman even more un-safe

Im surprised this comment comes from a woman. To counter your statement I'd say killing the victim is always safe for the rapist because RAPE IS A CRIME WHICH WILL LEAD TO SOME PUNUSHMENT lol. They know they are doing wrong and if they're caught they are dead(not literally).


actually in many, if not most places, rape (and child abuse) is a crime which very rarely leads to any legal punishment. Even when brought to trial, (alleged) rapists are often not convicted (In the West, they're convicted about half of the times, which is comparable to other crimes)
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by Amsel_ »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:10 for a murder

You're joking, right?
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by spanky4ever »

Radix_Lecti wrote:The end goal of a prison sentence should be atonement.

and rehabilitation to be honest. that way you are not left with ppl going in and out of prison :unsure:
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Amsel_ wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:10 for a murder

You're joking, right?

No.
Bertrand Cantat got only 4 years for killing his girlfriend for example.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by spanky4ever »

for the society, its nessasary to punish ppl - I get that. But then you have to options, Locking them up and trew the key away. Or try to make them more fit to be a citizen - not doing more crimes, and try to rehabilitate them while they are serving their sentences.
In my country we have a max sentence 21 years, and you only get the max for very severe crimes.
So in my country, we weith the "rehabilitation" side of it, very highly. And guess what; we have the least reoffending rates in the world.

https://youtu.be/aZV7x13MtrQ
https://youtu.be/j72OTvfduBk

If you treat ppl like animals, that is what your gonna get.
If you treat them like human beings, and try to give them some skills to cope, then you will get a coping human being. That is the theory behind it anyways - and its working out pretty good. :!:
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by Amsel_ »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Amsel_ wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:10 for a murder

You're joking, right?

No.
Bertrand Cantat got only 4 years for killing his girlfriend for example.

That's crazy! You'd get a minimum of like 20 years for that in America.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Amsel_ wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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No.
Bertrand Cantat got only 4 years for killing his girlfriend for example.

That's crazy! You'd get a minimum of like 20 years for that in America.

20 is actually the most you can get in France (except life), and you can be (are) freed after 13 years. Oh and life sentence doesn't exist actually, it's 22 years max.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by spanky4ever »

and how is that working out @The_Amsel ?? Most ppl in prison in the world. Really bad recidual rates. No coping when back "in real life"
big corporations making big buck. School>>>>prison :kinggreen: for a big portion of the black people. Incarceration being Big Buisness. :?
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by Amsel_ »

iwillspankyou wrote:and how is that working out @The_Amsel ??

Not too bad, actually. The biggest problems here are drugs and gangs.
I hope this isn't too off-topic.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by spanky4ever »

Amsel_ wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:and how is that working out @The_Amsel ??

Not too bad, actually. The biggest problems here are drugs and gangs.
I hope this isn't too off-topic.

I recently saw a video of a person serving a 50 year sentence for dealing weed :ugeek: 50 years is 2 1/2 time the sentence for a serious crime in Norway. I mean - nobody serve this kind of sentence here :!:
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yea more than 5 years for drugs is ridiculous.
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Re: Do you believe in the death penalty?

Post by spanky4ever »

https://youtu.be/TQzm_eJrwUI this is crazy shit ;)

But then again, I bet the private prisons made some serious dollars :uglylol:
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