Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by Jam »

I am Dutch, AMA.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by deleted_user0 »

Sigh... This shitshow is exactly why i tried to use a different approach. Can't beat the internet I guess.

Hurderdur. No gg. Out.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by deleted_user0 »

jgals wrote:
Papist wrote:
jgals wrote:
Too many leftist tears for me to wade through and respond to this. America is a terrible place for a lot of reasons ironically immigrants are the one thing helping things out here in the USA. Simply because anyone who comes in from a broad is bound to have more of a soul than your average American. You obviously misread what I wrote in that regard which is typical of the left in their unwillingness to engage in an intelligent fashion favoring personal attacks instead( another reasons they never get anywhere) .... but I don’t need to ask a European for their opinion because most of them are either brainwashed apathetic or afraid to express their true feelings and be banished as a bigot sexist homophobe. Also I have been to Europe and stayed there as an exchange student so I don’t really need to ask one for their opinion as I’ve seen it firsthand

How ironic. You criticize people on "the left" for not wanting to have intelligent discussions, then ignore my response to the offensive and empirically false claims you made and start making personal attacks. Anyway, onto your other "points".

You have an opinion about Europe, and if anyone disagrees with your unfounded claims, then it's because of political correctness (not because you're wrong, of course). As if a year at a European university and reading a couple articles on Fox News makes you more qualified to talk about European immigration policies than actual Europeans. Mind telling us what you "saw", and (assuming it was something negative involving an immigrant), why you generalized it to all immigrants?

And since you clearly hate the United States, can I ask you when you're leaving?



My opinions are my own to keep and express so fuck you, and I’ll stay as long as I want to, so fuck you. But I really don’t think you know my opinions or anything about me and to jump to judge mental conclusions based on an irrelevant posting on an irrelevenat website showsyour idiocy


Yes, if you're going to behave like a 10 yo with a tantrum... Please keep it to yourself. If you can talk about things like an adult, you're welcome to return.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by Cometk »

[spoiler=Category -1-]1: Yes
2: Yes
3: No
4: Yes, to a degree.
5: Yes
6: Yes
7: Yes
8: Yes
9: No
10: No
11: Yes
12: Yes
13: Yes[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Category -2-]1: Yes
2: Would need to know more about the circumstances, leaning Yes
3: Yes
4: No
5: No
6: Would need to know more about the circumstances, leaning Yes
7: Yes
8: No
9: Yes
10: Probably Yes
11: Probably Yes
12: Yes
13: Yes[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Category -3-]1: Yes
2: Yes
3: Yes
4: Yes
5: Yes
6: Yes
7: Yes
8: From just this context, no. However, say she had lived her whole life in NL and spoke Dutch, then it would be a yes.
9: Yes
10: Same deal as 8
11: I figure a person like this probably tends to identify with their German side more than they do their Dutch. So, again, from just this context, no.
12: Mostly not
13: Same deal as 8[/spoiler]
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by Papist »

jgals wrote:My opinions are my own to keep and express so fuck you, and I’ll stay as long as I want to, so fuck you. But I really don’t think you know my opinions or anything about me and to jump to judge mental conclusions based on an irrelevant posting on an irrelevenat website showsyour idiocy


You have the freedom to believe what you want, and I have the freedom to call your beliefs bigoted and poorly informed. If you can't handle scrutiny, don't post. You don't have the right to say ignorant and inflammatory things and not get called out for it.

I also wasn't saying you must leave, I was just questioning why you're still here if everything is so terrible.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Papist wrote:
You have the freedom to believe what you want


That doesn't mean ESOC is forced to allow him to post whatever he wants to believe though
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by Papist »

jgals wrote:By the way if black African French are a minority in the population but a majority on the starting lineup if that’s not racism on the part of France to assume that they should chose their starters just because they are black.... if that’s not racism then I don’t know what is


Why do you assume France chose their starters because they're black? Maybe they were just the best players in the pool, lol. What a concept.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by gibson »

Some of the posts in this thread make me wanna shoot myself in the fucking head.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by edeholland »

How many more ppl have to post before we can hear your answers Umeu? I'm getting excited.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by deleted_user0 »

edeholland wrote:How many more ppl have to post before we can hear your answers Umeu? I'm getting excited.


maybe 5 or so more. there aren't really "answers", it was supposed to be a discussion, but I wanted to see first if there would be any common points, which there seem to be but only a few people are participating, and those who maybe have a different opinion, aren't or can't behave.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

I can't tell what you're trying to say here, honestly. This question doesn't have an answer, no matter how many times you discuss it. Asking people who aren't dutch of their opinion of the royal heritage isn't going to help with that. It's the same as asking me what defines a real Canadian; I have no idea.

On that note, all of the black French football players were born in France. I don't see how people can argue that they're not French. France herself colonized those African regions after all, and when France needed its colonies the most during the second world war they weren't shy to acknowledge the unity of the French empire..
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by deleted_user »

Umeu. isn't. looking. for. any. one. answer. but. using. a. method. to. facilitate. discussion. and. develop. a. potential. means. to. an. answer.

There's no real right or wrong, there might be a better and worse, and likely there is some common factor in peoples' choices.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by Sargsyan »

deleted_user wrote:Umeu. isn't. looking. for. any. one. answer. but. using. a. method. to. facilitate. discussion. and. develop. a. potential. means. to. an. answer.

There's no real right or wrong, there might be a better and worse, and likely there is some common factor in peoples' choices.

Thats right, i mean.. better
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by Kaiserklein »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:On that note, all of the black French football players were born in France. I don't see how people can argue that they're not French. France herself colonized those African regions after all, and when France needed its colonies the most during the second world war they weren't shy to acknowledge the unity of the French empire..

It's not even about colonies. These don't exist anymore today. During the world wars, they still did, so it was different.
It's simply about one of the most important french laws, which basically states that someone born in france has the french nationality.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by deleted_user0 »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:I can't tell what you're trying to say here, honestly. This question doesn't have an answer, no matter how many times you discuss it. Asking people who aren't dutch of their opinion of the royal heritage isn't going to help with that. It's the same as asking me what defines a real Canadian; I have no idea.

On that note, all of the black French football players were born in France. I don't see how people can argue that they're not French. France herself colonized those African regions after all, and when France needed its colonies the most during the second world war they weren't shy to acknowledge the unity of the French empire..


Maybe the question doesn't have a clear answer, but that doesn't mean there is nothing to talk about, nor that there are some things that we can reject, and some key notions that we can embrace, generally speaking. The question of identity, whether individual or in a social context of community, has occupied people for millennia. I'm aware of that, and I'm not pretending that we were gonna solve it in this thread. But meh, whatever, nobody really appears to have the appetite for it. So might as well drop it then.

on the second note, that's indeed interesting history. I'm researching it atm. More in relation to WW1, but still.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by deleted_user »

What if we treat identity not as a way to extrapolate information from strangers but as something strictly personal? I don't feel comfortable "guessing" where someone is from because what do I gain from it? And how do I know if I'm right? It just doesn't make sense to me. I do enjoy learning how people identify themselves through conversation, but when it comes to topics of race, ethnicity, nationality, I think those are for individuals to disclose and not something that I gain anything from trying to interpret.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by deleted_user0 »

It can't be something strictly personal as identity is always interpersonal, for humans anyway.

And you aren't guessing where someone is from (apart from with the pictures, maybe). You are simply stating, based on what you know, what you believe are the parameters for nationality/citizenship, and you're doing so by using people as an example.
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by jgals »

I never said a single thing that even implies racism.if y’all are mad that I disagree with your immigration opinions then you are too sensitive. If you consider being anti immigration bigoted then you are the bigot, for anyone is allowed their own political views especially if they make sense, which they do. On a smaller scale it’s like this, even if you are quite rich if you allow everyone in the world to come over for dinner who wants to and some of whom are thieves you are not going to be happy with the result. Europe is already overcrowded. It’s hard to find a real forest or wilderness area compared to the US. So if you are going to allow people in from abroad you better be damn sure they have something to offer. If you want to keep the fair continent fair and prosperous that is. I fail to see any argument agains this. I’m not against anyone being called French or a French citizen. At one time I was considering emigrating to France.no one here knows my ethnicity but I’m not French. I would like to believe that I would be treated equally but I know from living abroad as an ethnic minority in a hand full of counties over the years that I would not everbe fully accepted. Which leads me back to another thing I ha e to point out, on the immigration question do you really think that if the tables were turned all those countries would take us in? I’m pretty sure the answer is no having lived abroad for years in various countries and seen actual racism and discrimination not the kind of joke of it that exists in the USA
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by fightinfrenchman »

jgals wrote: I fail to see any argument agains this


Sounds like you're not looking very hard
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by jgals »

So to respond directly to your question why am I still here? As I said above I am from the USA and so it is probably the only place that I will ever truly belong like it or not. I have lived in a handful of countries on multiple continents and it is hard to feel belonging in any country other than my own for an extended period of time and there is actually a lot to be said for feeling like you belong somewhere. The only other place that I might really be able to move to and feel like that is Brazil In large part because it is also a colonial mixed country as well as a very open one. And I speak the language fluently already. But obviously the economic situation is better in the US
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by jgals »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
jgals wrote: I fail to see any argument agains this


Sounds like you're not looking very hard


I mean one that actually makes sense and doesn’t just involve week peoples feelings
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by fightinfrenchman »

jgals wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
jgals wrote: I fail to see any argument agains this


Sounds like you're not looking very hard


I mean one that actually makes sense and doesn’t just involve week peoples feelings


What about a country with a declining population?
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by jgals »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
jgals wrote:
Show hidden quotes


I mean one that actually makes sense and doesn’t just involve week peoples feelings


What about a country with a declining population?


Then yes unless the country is overpopulated of course.The only country that really comes to mind is Japan I don’t know if you’ve ever been there but people basically live on top of each other so I think they could stand to lose some population maybe replant some forests reclaim some farmland who knows
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by Radix_Lecti »

Japan's population is in crisis, though. Maybe not the best example that could have been proposed...
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Re: Who is Dutch? About nationality and heritage

Post by jgals »

Radix_Lecti wrote:Japan's population is in crisis, though. Maybe not the best example that could have been proposed...

Well it is a country with an aging population as well as declining.so things could get tough there. Still I see japan as such an ethnocentric and xenophobic nation I don’t think they would welcome a ton of immigrants. Like there Is a large Chinese Community in Yokohama but I would figure the Japanese would isolate them or they’d isolate themselves in odd little disenfranchised community.

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