Dear white people

[Googol]

Why would he be a nazi? I don't understand.

[Gendarme]

Wow. I did nazi that one coming.

[princeofkabul]

i did

[spanky4ever]

Wow. I did nazi that one coming.

cos you are not that bright - britght lol

[Djigit]

haha yes

[Djigit]

The locked thread was funnier.

[edeholland]

Spank please stop flaming and baiting people, it doesn't help in this thread which was relatively insult-free.

[spanky4ever]

Spank please stop flaming and baiting people, it doesn't help in this thread which was relatively insult-free.

kk

[InsectPoison]

Not unusual for a Bernie supporter to call anyone and everyone a Nazi.

[spanky4ever]

Not unusual for a Bernie supporter to call anyone and everyone a Nazi.

and I did not do that was never in my mind,. nadel. nei, niech, not ever in our minds

[spanky4ever]

https://youtu.be/22GEvDupWGo

[spanky4ever]

what is what is a good start

[Gendarme]

Bugfixer Gendarme at your service.

[Gendarme]

Here to fix the bug again. Looks like I'm needed quite a lot tonight.

[spanky4ever]

what is a smart ass (umeu), what is a cute ass (goodspeed), what is white suprmesieee (Gendarme). What is a resonable person thant do not vote (Gibson). what is a young person who lost his way (Jerom).- who can not tolerate ppl being on the other page then him, without calling them "morons" ; "snuden" of corse,


User has been banned for three-and-a-half days. Reason: Continuous harassment/baiting despite previous warnings.

[Vinyanyérë]

Great show @Goodspeed, I really enjoyed this one. Thank you for your recommendation.

[spanky4ever]

really. I tryed to wach it, but man, its kind or stupid and boring, and funny things that are not funny, I could never get in to the show I tryed though, and cannot understand the fuzz, sorry

[deleted_user0]

Show hidden quotes

The thing that's wrong is the fact that skin color, or another trait, is linked to things that have nothing to do with that trait. And that people who possess the one trait, are judged and sentenced for other traits they are assumed to have, but might not possess.

If you dislike someone because he smells bad, and you dislike bad smells, that's a legit reason to dislike someone. What's not legit is to then attach that dislike to a host of other things which aren't connected to that trait or that person. It's possible that every person you've met so far that smelled bad also had greasy hair, but unless there's scientific proof of a causal relationship between bad smell and greasy hair it's unreasonable to believe that everyone who smells bad has greasy hair.

This conflicts with the opinion that it is wrong to say something like "I believe black people are genetically dumber and I have data to back this up." as was briefly discussed in an earlier thread starting with this post. Do you disagree with Kami and think that it is in fact completely fine?

How "fine" it is depends on the integrity of the study as well as the one making the comment. There is a difference in "fineness" between someone who denies the holocaust due to ignorance of the facts, due to ideological indoctrination or due a willful misrepresentation of the facts in order to achieve a certain goal. Yet I wouldn't forbid any of them to say anything.

In general I think everything should be able to be discussed. But most people aren't really interested in a discussion.

I agree. Interesting.

Maybe. I meant what I said In the narrow context of the law and the state/government. It should be legal to say these things, although how and why you say it matters to some extent. No one can forbid anyone their beliefs either. But that doesn't mean I'm ok with people acting on those beliefs in every way. And as such, I see it as a duty of every person who loves freedom, which can't exist truly without tolerance or community, to be against any public acts (and this is an important distinction) that diminish other people's (ability to partake in the) public space. I think it's fine for a religious person to think that abortion is a sin, although I don't agree with it. It's fine to say it too, even though I wouldn't say it. But it's not fine to force others to live by this principle against their will, and it's even less fine to take matters into own hand and punish people for doing something you don't agree with (talking about the public sphere).

However, on the level of community, i think it's fine to take a stance against certain forms of speech that target, isolate and exclude people from the community. in order to ensure the inclusion of all those who are willing and deserving of being part of the community, its members have to guard against intolerance, especially of the kind that forgets the basic tenets of democratic society, that a person is judged on their actions, and that we have a separate branch for this. If it's wrong to judge and punish the son for the crimes of the father, than how can it ever be considered reasonable to judge and punish someone for the crimes a stranger committed solely because they share a certain similarity.

There is no such thing as an intolerance paradox in my mind. Tolerance is not a virtue in and of itself. It's a safety net. It's something that is needed to ensure freedom. Freedom is the space between people. It can only exist in community. As such it is never unlimited, it's always directly limited by the other people you share the community with. It presupposes equality. The French revolution had it right in that regard, freedom (liberté) is equality (egalité) in community (fraternité). In my mind, everyone has the duty to be tolerant in order to ensure freedom for all. But one doesn't have to be, or rather even shouldn't be, tolerant of those actions which in effect diminish or destroy the freedom of others. Because of this, we put criminals in jail. Because of this we have laws that forbid discrimination. And we've created institutions to safeguard the law. Simple in theory. But in practice it appears that some of the institutions are corrupted and tend to protect the interest of one group over that of other groups (generally it's a problem of class, but in many places, class can't just be separated from race without ignoring history and without ignoring how that history still impacts the present). Which is why we're having this conversation right now.

[princeofkabul]

really. I tryed to wach it, but man, its kind or stupid and boring, and funny things that are not funny, I could never get in to the show I tryed though, and cannot understand the fuzz, sorry

I tried aswell but ultimately I found it boring.

[Goodspeed]

really. I tryed to wach it, but man, its kind or stupid and boring, and funny things that are not funny, I could never get in to the show I tryed though, and cannot understand the fuzz, sorry

Stupid and boring

What specifically was stupid and boring to you? Just not that into drama shows? Characters too young?

[princeofkabul]

For me, the humour wasn't good. Then the first episode's usage of hashtag this and that made it clear, it's probably a show not for me. I can't say with the experience of that one episode how it addresses racism problem. Maybe it's an eye opener like you said, sadly I find it quite boring.

[Goodspeed]

I get the humour part, people have different senses of humour, but why would usage of hashtags mean it's not a show for you?

[momuuu]

Spank please stop flaming and baiting people, it doesn't help in this thread which was relatively insult-free.

kk

Kkk*

[Snuden]

what is a smart ass (umeu), what is a cute ass (goodspeed), what is white suprmesieee (Gendarme). What is a resonable person thant do not vote (Gibson). what is a young person who lost his way (Jerom).- who can not tolerate ppl being on the other page then him, without calling them "morons" ; "snuden" of corse,

Seems you forgot; Who is an imbecile (iwillspankyou)

User has been banned for three-and-a-half days. Reason: Continuous harassment/baiting despite previous warnings.

[momuuu]

What stereotype are you talking about? That they're religious?

You dont know what a 'kutmarokkaan' is?

This kind of ignorant stuff is whats feeding racism and racist political parties. There are dumb people walking the streets of their poor neighboorhood, seeing the stereotype get confirmed over and over and over again. But then, when you talk to people like you or watch some politicians speak, they seem to be absolutely oblivious of the reality. Yes, I agree that racism should not exist and fortunately I am smart enough to understand how this stereotype is a combination of unfortunate factors and I also understand that a member of an ethnic group doesnt necessarily fit the stereotype, and even I - a moderate, educated left young man - get a bit annoyed by the fact that in discussions and politics people just straight up turn away from the truth.

Heres some truth for you: if you drive in Overvecht (large amount of Moroccans) you will have signifumicantly more terrible traffic experiences. If there is a black golf with a Moroccan dude driving behind you, you will probably be passed on the right or face aggressive driving behaviour. In Utrecht there is always one 'black school', which means there is an extremely large percentage of Moroccans there. This school will do extremely poorly, because the stereotype is very accurate and teaching such a class is borderline impossible. Often this school is at high risk of losing all other white students and thus having to close. First it was the Nils Stenssen College, then the Gerrit Rietveld Collefe (which narrowly survived by managing to attract more white kids) and now its the Gregorius. You can look up their exam results if you'd like, its not pretty. If theres a case of theft or criminality, its more likely that it was done by a Moroccan than a white person. These are all facts.

This is all so extremely accurate that discrimination is unavoidable at large. If there are two identical resumes, I will choose the white guy over the Moroccan guy because I cannot help but feel like there will at least be some of the stereotype in the Moroccan guy. Taking him would be a risk actually because of how likely it is. By acting oblivious and repeating we shouldnt be racist, you're almost straight up ignoring how reality is. If you want to solve racism, you need to make sure the stereotype isnt so accurate first.