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Netherlands Goodspeed
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30 Jul 2018, 10:17

Yet treating these people differently because of assumptions you made based on their race makes these stereotypes self-fulfilling. And 95% is an extreme overestimation. And children in general behave questionably; often these people grow up to be perfectly responsible adults.

Again, integration is a nationwide issue that needs the government's attention. Not letting our prejudices affect the way we treat strangers is something we can do as individuals.
Netherlands momuuu
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30 Jul 2018, 10:28

Goodspeed wrote:Yet treating these people differently because of assumptions you made based on their race makes these stereotypes self-fulfilling. And 95% is an extreme overestimation. And children in general behave questionably; often these people grow up to be perfectly responsible adults.

Again, integration is a nationwide issue that needs the government's attention. Not letting our prejudices affect the way we treat strangers is something we can do as individuals.

Actually, Id say the Moroccan stereotype specifically means they are a pain in the ass in the teenage years but grow up reasonable. I actually preferred playing senior Moroccan teams over white senior teams. But you should have known this at least, its pretty common knowledge. Yet, this does fuck a bit with the perception.

I dont agree though that you shouldnt let a stereotype affect your judgement. If you're running a company and you get to choose between identical seeming applicants, except that one is white and one moroccan, you will simply take significantly fewer risks choosing the white guy precisely because the stereotype is at least sometimes accurate. Thats the best decision for the company at least. So solving racism by hoping people will act irrationally will never work.
Germany blasdg
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30 Jul 2018, 14:14

Is it truly racism then?! When even official statistics tell me that immigrants are much more likely to be criminals in Germany and I act accordingly - where is the problem with that?
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Germany Lukas_L99
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30 Jul 2018, 14:23

blasdg wrote:Is it truly racism then?! When even official statistics tell me that immigrants are much more likely to be criminals in Germany and I act accordingly - where is the problem with that?


Exactly. Many people are calling that racism already.

It would be racist if you said „they’re more criminal cause of their skin colour“, but it’s not racist to state statistical facts. Biggest reason for that isn’t their skin colour though, but rather that the majority are uneducated young men coming from a culture with a questionable view on women.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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30 Jul 2018, 15:27

Read page 7 @blasdg @Lukas_L99
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Germany Lukas_L99
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30 Jul 2018, 15:58

Goodspeed wrote:Read page 7 @blasdg @Lukas_L99


Sure you and umeu do have valid points. Many people in Germany (including me back then) thought similar to that in 2015 when more than a million refugees entered Germany, the vast majority young and uneducated men. What do we have now? An increase in sexual crimes, crimes against life etc. Remember New Year in Cologne 2015? Which groups are overrepresented by almost 300% compared to the german population?

Again, I’m not saying that they’re more criminal cause of their skin colour/ethnicity or whatever. I’m on mobile now but I can give you the official crime statistics later.
No Flag umeu
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30 Jul 2018, 16:25

blasdg wrote:Is it truly racism then?! When even official statistics tell me that immigrants are much more likely to be criminals in Germany and I act accordingly - where is the problem with that?


Yes, it is. Because the differentiation goes by lines of race/ethnicity. That while it's actually far more likely, as Lukas points out, that the main catalyst is poverty and lack of education. Yet, when you look at crime statistics, it's way easier to find data linking crime to race/ethnicity, than it is to find data that does the same for income and education levels. That's an interesting phenomenon in itself. The statistics themselves aren't necessarily racist in the typical sense of the word where we mean biased against a race. But they can/do promote bias against a race when people use/understand the statistics in a wrong way. A person is not a statistic. It's really as simple as that. It's discrimination not because you draw conclusions about a group in general based on statistics. It's discrimination because you deny a person their individuality when you judge them not on the merit of their own character but based on assumptions you have that are not related to this specific person. And when the trait on which you discriminate is race/ethnicity, then it's racist. If it's sex, gender or sexuality, then it's sexist.

I can understand that people get so triggered when they hear these labels, but they must understand that there are gradations. As I said before, not every mistake is in the same category, some mistakes are worse than others. If I say the earth is 2x bigger than it actually is, that's a mistake, but it's not as big of a mistake as when I would say that the earth is flat. Not every racist is as bad, and not every racist is a white supremacist (something which diarouga failed to understand) and some people just aren't racist, they're just scared or ignorant, but in their fear or ignorance they make racist claims or support racist policy. And this is something that's true for any group, not just white or arab or black or whatever.

I mean people who have been victim of a crime, or who know people who have been victim of a crime, it's understandable that they have negative feelings. And they may have reasons for these feelings, understandable reasons, but that still doesn't make it reasonable. Statistically all white supremacists are white. Imagine I have been mistreated by white supremacists. Is it reasonable for me to hate all white people now and treat them as if they are exactly the same as those other people who mistreated me, and the people of whom I have heard that they mistreated other people for the same reason, without giving anyone a genuine chance to prove that they aren't? If I don't then obviously I will always see the stereotype confirmed. Because I only remember that bad stuff, and I have never given anyone a chance because I view everything they do through a suspicious and hostile lens.

It's reasonable to say the crimes are a problem. To point at cultural values as a possible or even probable catalyst for those crimes is also a reasonable thing to do. To deny someone their humanity isn't, especially when you do so not based on their own actions. And that's what invariably happens when people start to believe in narratives like these. Maybe not now, maybe not even 10 years from now, but eventually for sure.

I think goodspeed is right when he said that both must happen, the people who feed these stereotypical accusations must change their ways, criminals must always change their ways, but the other part must happen too, the other people must facilitate the change as well, and by discriminating against the people who don't feed the stereotype but would rather dismantle it, you aren't facilitating change, but you are in fact worsening the problem.

In any case, that's all just talking about individual cases of racism, but if you'd watched the series/movies which has the same title as this thread, or if you'd followed the development in this field over the past few decades, you'd understand that the biggest hurdle isn't really individual racists who yell go back to your country, dumb black monkey or dumb sandnigger, or whatever. The problem is that the cards are systematically stacked against certain groups, primarily against poor people in general, but that's not the whole story, which becomes clear when you realise that for example in the USA, poor uneducated white men have more wealth then college educated black men, on average. Or that in the Netherlands it's harder for an immigrant without a criminal record to get a job than it is for a Dutch ex convict.
Netherlands momuuu
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30 Jul 2018, 16:30

If your idea of a solution is to expect a majority of people to behave literally irrationally to solve a problem that is not even theirs, then your solution is pretty bad.
No Flag umeu
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30 Jul 2018, 16:41

momuuu wrote:If your idea of a solution is to expect a majority of people to behave literally irrationally to solve a problem that is not even theirs, then your solution is pretty bad.


You didn't find that a bad idea when you said that people who are discriminated against even though they don't confirm the stereotype should solve that problem, even though by your logic it's not their problem. Quite frankly your idea of what's rational isn't that rational at all. You may have reasons, but it's not reasonable.

It's their problem to be honest, not just because they are part of the problem, but because it's their society as well. It's everyone's problem, because we all live together.
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United States of America Mvp618
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30 Jul 2018, 16:51

umeu wrote:
momuuu wrote:If your idea of a solution is to expect a majority of people to behave literally irrationally to solve a problem that is not even theirs, then your solution is pretty bad.


You didn't find that a bad idea when you said that people who are discriminated against even though they don't confirm the stereotype should solve that problem, even though by your logic it's not their problem. Quite frankly your idea of what's rational isn't that rational at all. You may have reasons, but it's not reasonable.

It's their problem to be honest, not just because they are part of the problem, but because it's their society as well. It's everyone's problem, because we all live together.

You say this as if society is not separated into communities. Problems should be solved within the communities that they exist. For example gang violence, which is primary related to young urban communities comprised of Hispanics and blacks. You cannot expect people to be willing to solve issues that are not their own.
Germany blasdg
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30 Jul 2018, 16:57

I completely understand your point @ umeu and you are right, of course poverty, lack of education, wrong expectations when coming to Europe, mistreatment by the people that helped them to get to Europe, different socialization etc. are the true reasons why immigrants are much more often criminals than germans are.
And I also acknowledge that you kind of deny people the chance to prove that they are actually decdent humans by looking at the statistics.

But then tell me what to do. Because these statistics, they dont lie.

1) If I own a company and have to hire people, I will STILL always go for the german. Simply because I need to make money and cant be worried about problems that might occur with a much much higher propability if I take the syrian worker. Understandable from my pint of view and it has nothing to do with race or gender or smell.

2) Maybe something more from my personal life: I work at university as a Ph.D student in Chemistry and we have a lot of people who want to write their bachelor thesis or master thesis or whatever thesis they need. If I have the choice between a german and, say, a Chinese and both have comparable grades and are not completely retarded when speaking to them - guess what? My boss will tell me to pick the german. Mostly because of language issues that often arise when dealing with foreigners. Again, its not about race or gender or smell - its just far far less convenient in terms of working together to pick a Chinese man/woman instead of a german. Racism?

3) I can tell you at least 20 cities in Germany that have MASSIVE problems with immigrants. No-go-areas (politicians denied their existence a few years ago but now it is just too obvious), dead people pretty much every week. I can tell you that the rate of sexual crimes skyrocketed. I can tell you that the rate of young women getting literally raped to death has skyrocketed. I can tell you that a baby was beheaded (!!!) in Hamburg, at daytime! I can tell you that things like "Silvester 2015 Köln" and other gang-rape parties and/or "discussions between huge families" (quote of a german police dude) are on the rise. Everybody can look this up, I am not talking out of my arse. Knowing all that I am just waaaay more careful when being alone in the dark, especially as a woman (im not btw.). I try to avoid contact with foreigners as much as I can outside and I always think: "Better safe than sorry". This again has nothing to do with race or gender or smell - but with statistics and the will to live. And I can tell you, I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who tells me that he/she is extra important when talking to strangers. You can call that racism - but I simply dont agree and will ignore people who tell me to just "get along with them". Because I dont want to be the next person who newspapers write about. I am not willing to risk my life when all I get on exchange is that some random dude stops calling me a racist ;)


What must happen to solve the problem?
I can tell you one thing that is true for Germany from my experience: As long as crime statistics rise higher and higher and the german government still makes the politics of "open borders" (what I actually changed as soon as I had the powers to do so), people WILL NOT CHANGE. The climate in Germany is so hysterical, especially from the left side, that as soon as you mention statistics you are a racist (happens every day). That is part of the reason why the right parties are on the rise, as they are in Sweden, France, the Netherlands (hello @ Geert Wilders) and Austria, Eastern Europe never welcomed refugees in the first place. People are being sick called a racist when a large group of the people that come here are making EVERYTHING much worse. And because they cant look into the heart and the brain of the refugees, they say:
"Better safe than sorry."
And I cant judge them for that, because Germany as a country is not gaining ANYTHING, the society is not gaining ANYTHING and the individual people in Germany are also not gaining a lot, while we risk our culture, our safety, our wealth and the whole European idea.

So, what must happen to solve the problem?!
No Flag umeu
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30 Jul 2018, 17:06

Mvp618 wrote:
umeu wrote:
momuuu wrote:If your idea of a solution is to expect a majority of people to behave literally irrationally to solve a problem that is not even theirs, then your solution is pretty bad.


You didn't find that a bad idea when you said that people who are discriminated against even though they don't confirm the stereotype should solve that problem, even though by your logic it's not their problem. Quite frankly your idea of what's rational isn't that rational at all. You may have reasons, but it's not reasonable.

It's their problem to be honest, not just because they are part of the problem, but because it's their society as well. It's everyone's problem, because we all live together.

You say this as if society is not separated into communities. Problems should be solved within the communities that they exist. For example gang violence, which is primary related to young urban communities comprised of Hispanics and blacks. You cannot expect people to be willing to solve issues that are not their own.


You say it as if those communities exist in isolation. Not just in physical isolation, but also in political and historical isolation. The fact that these communities are so separated definitely is related to racism/discrimination. By saying it's only their problem you are suggesting that they are responsible for that condition, even though much of it has it's origin in racist policies which still make their mark upon society nowadays. To say that "well, I'm not directly affected by it so why should I care about it" is exactly the type of privilege that's under scrutiny in the series. When you're comfortable, it's conveniently easy to ignore how your actions maintain the status quo.

Either way, I don't entirely disagree with you. I already said in a previous post that it's not just 1 person, 1 group or whatever who has to solve whatever. It has to come from both "sides". I believe everyone has to do their part.
No Flag umeu
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30 Jul 2018, 17:13

blasdg wrote:I completely understand your point @ umeu and you are right, of course poverty, lack of education, wrong expectations when coming to Europe, mistreatment by the people that helped them to get to Europe, different socialization etc. are the true reasons why immigrants are much more often criminals than germans are.
And I also acknowledge that you kind of deny people the chance to prove that they are actually decdent humans by looking at the statistics.

But then tell me what to do. Because these statistics, they dont lie.

1) If I own a company and have to hire people, I will STILL always go for the german. Simply because I need to make money and cant be worried about problems that might occur with a much much higher propability if I take the syrian worker. Understandable from my pint of view and it has nothing to do with race or gender or smell.

2) Maybe something more from my personal life: I work at university as a Ph.D student in Chemistry and we have a lot of people who want to write their bachelor thesis or master thesis or whatever thesis they need. If I have the choice between a german and, say, a Chinese and both have comparable grades and are not completely retarded when speaking to them - guess what? My boss will tell me to pick the german. Mostly because of language issues that often arise when dealing with foreigners. Again, its not about race or gender or smell - its just far far less convenient in terms of working together to pick a Chinese man/woman instead of a german. Racism?

3) I can tell you at least 20 cities in Germany that have MASSIVE problems with immigrants. No-go-areas (politicians denied their existence a few years ago but now it is just too obvious), dead people pretty much every week. I can tell you that the rate of sexual crimes skyrocketed. I can tell you that the rate of young women getting literally raped to death has skyrocketed. I can tell you that a baby was beheaded (!!!) in Hamburg, at daytime! I can tell you that things like "Silvester 2015 Köln" and other gang-rape parties and/or "discussions between huge families" (quote of a german police dude) are on the rise. Everybody can look this up, I am not talking out of my arse. Knowing all that I am just waaaay more careful when being alone in the dark, especially as a woman (im not btw.). I try to avoid contact with foreigners as much as I can outside and I always think: "Better safe than sorry". This again has nothing to do with race or gender or smell - but with statistics and the will to live. And I can tell you, I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who tells me that he/she is extra important when talking to strangers. You can call that racism - but I simply dont agree and will ignore people who tell me to just "get along with them". Because I dont want to be the next person who newspapers write about. I am not willing to risk my life when all I get on exchange is that some random dude stops calling me a racist ;)


What must happen to solve the problem?
I can tell you one thing that is true for Germany from my experience: As long as crime statistics rise higher and higher and the german government still makes the politics of "open borders" (what I actually changed as soon as I had the powers to do so), people WILL NOT CHANGE. The climate in Germany is so hysterical, especially from the left side, that as soon as you mention statistics you are a racist (happens every day). That is part of the reason why the right parties are on the rise, as they are in Sweden, France, the Netherlands (hello @ Geert Wilders) and Austria, Eastern Europe never welcomed refugees in the first place. People are being sick called a racist when a large group of the people that come here are making EVERYTHING much worse. And because they cant look into the heart and the brain of the refugees, they say:
"Better safe than sorry."
And I cant judge them for that, because Germany as a country is not gaining ANYTHING, the society is not gaining ANYTHING and the individual people in Germany are also not gaining a lot, while we risk our culture, our safety, our wealth and the whole European idea.

So, what must happen to solve the problem?!


i'll respond to you tomorrow.
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Finland princeofkabul
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30 Jul 2018, 19:34

Goodspeed wrote:I get the humour part, people have different senses of humour, but why would usage of hashtags mean it's not a show for you?


I don't know, i'm old fashioned : )
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Germany lordraphael
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30 Jul 2018, 20:49

blasdg wrote:I completely understand your point @ umeu and you are right, of course poverty, lack of education, wrong expectations when coming to Europe, mistreatment by the people that helped them to get to Europe, different socialization etc. are the true reasons why immigrants are much more often criminals than germans are.
And I also acknowledge that you kind of deny people the chance to prove that they are actually decdent humans by looking at the statistics.

But then tell me what to do. Because these statistics, they dont lie.

1) If I own a company and have to hire people, I will STILL always go for the german. Simply because I need to make money and cant be worried about problems that might occur with a much much higher propability if I take the syrian worker. Understandable from my pint of view and it has nothing to do with race or gender or smell.

2) Maybe something more from my personal life: I work at university as a Ph.D student in Chemistry and we have a lot of people who want to write their bachelor thesis or master thesis or whatever thesis they need. If I have the choice between a german and, say, a Chinese and both have comparable grades and are not completely retarded when speaking to them - guess what? My boss will tell me to pick the german. Mostly because of language issues that often arise when dealing with foreigners. Again, its not about race or gender or smell - its just far far less convenient in terms of working together to pick a Chinese man/woman instead of a german. Racism?

3) I can tell you at least 20 cities in Germany that have MASSIVE problems with immigrants. No-go-areas (politicians denied their existence a few years ago but now it is just too obvious), dead people pretty much every week. I can tell you that the rate of sexual crimes skyrocketed. I can tell you that the rate of young women getting literally raped to death has skyrocketed. I can tell you that a baby was beheaded (!!!) in Hamburg, at daytime! I can tell you that things like "Silvester 2015 Köln" and other gang-rape parties and/or "discussions between huge families" (quote of a german police dude) are on the rise. Everybody can look this up, I am not talking out of my arse. Knowing all that I am just waaaay more careful when being alone in the dark, especially as a woman (im not btw.). I try to avoid contact with foreigners as much as I can outside and I always think: "Better safe than sorry". This again has nothing to do with race or gender or smell - but with statistics and the will to live. And I can tell you, I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who tells me that he/she is extra important when talking to strangers. You can call that racism - but I simply dont agree and will ignore people who tell me to just "get along with them". Because I dont want to be the next person who newspapers write about. I am not willing to risk my life when all I get on exchange is that some random dude stops calling me a racist ;)


What must happen to solve the problem?
I can tell you one thing that is true for Germany from my experience: As long as crime statistics rise higher and higher and the german government still makes the politics of "open borders" (what I actually changed as soon as I had the powers to do so), people WILL NOT CHANGE. The climate in Germany is so hysterical, especially from the left side, that as soon as you mention statistics you are a racist (happens every day). That is part of the reason why the right parties are on the rise, as they are in Sweden, France, the Netherlands (hello @ Geert Wilders) and Austria, Eastern Europe never welcomed refugees in the first place. People are being sick called a racist when a large group of the people that come here are making EVERYTHING much worse. And because they cant look into the heart and the brain of the refugees, they say:
"Better safe than sorry."
And I cant judge them for that, because Germany as a country is not gaining ANYTHING, the society is not gaining ANYTHING and the individual people in Germany are also not gaining a lot, while we risk our culture, our safety, our wealth and the whole European idea.

So, what must happen to solve the problem?!

good post
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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30 Jul 2018, 21:38

blasdg wrote:I completely understand your point @ umeu and you are right, of course poverty, lack of education, wrong expectations when coming to Europe, mistreatment by the people that helped them to get to Europe, different socialization etc. are the true reasons why immigrants are much more often criminals than germans are.
And I also acknowledge that you kind of deny people the chance to prove that they are actually decdent humans by looking at the statistics.

But then tell me what to do. Because these statistics, they dont lie.

1) If I own a company and have to hire people, I will STILL always go for the german. Simply because I need to make money and cant be worried about problems that might occur with a much much higher propability if I take the syrian worker. Understandable from my pint of view and it has nothing to do with race or gender or smell.

2) Maybe something more from my personal life: I work at university as a Ph.D student in Chemistry and we have a lot of people who want to write their bachelor thesis or master thesis or whatever thesis they need. If I have the choice between a german and, say, a Chinese and both have comparable grades and are not completely retarded when speaking to them - guess what? My boss will tell me to pick the german. Mostly because of language issues that often arise when dealing with foreigners. Again, its not about race or gender or smell - its just far far less convenient in terms of working together to pick a Chinese man/woman instead of a german. Racism?

3) I can tell you at least 20 cities in Germany that have MASSIVE problems with immigrants. No-go-areas (politicians denied their existence a few years ago but now it is just too obvious), dead people pretty much every week. I can tell you that the rate of sexual crimes skyrocketed. I can tell you that the rate of young women getting literally raped to death has skyrocketed. I can tell you that a baby was beheaded (!!!) in Hamburg, at daytime! I can tell you that things like "Silvester 2015 Köln" and other gang-rape parties and/or "discussions between huge families" (quote of a german police dude) are on the rise. Everybody can look this up, I am not talking out of my arse. Knowing all that I am just waaaay more careful when being alone in the dark, especially as a woman (im not btw.). I try to avoid contact with foreigners as much as I can outside and I always think: "Better safe than sorry". This again has nothing to do with race or gender or smell - but with statistics and the will to live. And I can tell you, I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who tells me that he/she is extra important when talking to strangers. You can call that racism - but I simply dont agree and will ignore people who tell me to just "get along with them". Because I dont want to be the next person who newspapers write about. I am not willing to risk my life when all I get on exchange is that some random dude stops calling me a racist ;)


What must happen to solve the problem?
I can tell you one thing that is true for Germany from my experience: As long as crime statistics rise higher and higher and the german government still makes the politics of "open borders" (what I actually changed as soon as I had the powers to do so), people WILL NOT CHANGE. The climate in Germany is so hysterical, especially from the left side, that as soon as you mention statistics you are a racist (happens every day). That is part of the reason why the right parties are on the rise, as they are in Sweden, France, the Netherlands (hello @ Geert Wilders) and Austria, Eastern Europe never welcomed refugees in the first place. People are being sick called a racist when a large group of the people that come here are making EVERYTHING much worse. And because they cant look into the heart and the brain of the refugees, they say:
"Better safe than sorry."
And I cant judge them for that, because Germany as a country is not gaining ANYTHING, the society is not gaining ANYTHING and the individual people in Germany are also not gaining a lot, while we risk our culture, our safety, our wealth and the whole European idea.

So, what must happen to solve the problem?!

Yes it's about the same in France (though there aren't that much crime). Basically the left parties claim that anyone who is against immigration is racist.
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30 Jul 2018, 21:43

blasdg wrote:I completely understand your point @ umeu and you are right, of course poverty, lack of education, wrong expectations when coming to Europe, mistreatment by the people that helped them to get to Europe, different socialization etc. are the true reasons why immigrants are much more often criminals than germans are.
And I also acknowledge that you kind of deny people the chance to prove that they are actually decdent humans by looking at the statistics.

But then tell me what to do. Because these statistics, they dont lie.

1) If I own a company and have to hire people, I will STILL always go for the german. Simply because I need to make money and cant be worried about problems that might occur with a much much higher propability if I take the syrian worker. Understandable from my pint of view and it has nothing to do with race or gender or smell.

2) Maybe something more from my personal life: I work at university as a Ph.D student in Chemistry and we have a lot of people who want to write their bachelor thesis or master thesis or whatever thesis they need. If I have the choice between a german and, say, a Chinese and both have comparable grades and are not completely retarded when speaking to them - guess what? My boss will tell me to pick the german. Mostly because of language issues that often arise when dealing with foreigners. Again, its not about race or gender or smell - its just far far less convenient in terms of working together to pick a Chinese man/woman instead of a german. Racism?

3) I can tell you at least 20 cities in Germany that have MASSIVE problems with immigrants. No-go-areas (politicians denied their existence a few years ago but now it is just too obvious), dead people pretty much every week. I can tell you that the rate of sexual crimes skyrocketed. I can tell you that the rate of young women getting literally raped to death has skyrocketed. I can tell you that a baby was beheaded (!!!) in Hamburg, at daytime! I can tell you that things like "Silvester 2015 Köln" and other gang-rape parties and/or "discussions between huge families" (quote of a german police dude) are on the rise. Everybody can look this up, I am not talking out of my arse. Knowing all that I am just waaaay more careful when being alone in the dark, especially as a woman (im not btw.). I try to avoid contact with foreigners as much as I can outside and I always think: "Better safe than sorry". This again has nothing to do with race or gender or smell - but with statistics and the will to live. And I can tell you, I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who tells me that he/she is extra important when talking to strangers. You can call that racism - but I simply dont agree and will ignore people who tell me to just "get along with them". Because I dont want to be the next person who newspapers write about. I am not willing to risk my life when all I get on exchange is that some random dude stops calling me a racist ;)


What must happen to solve the problem?
I can tell you one thing that is true for Germany from my experience: As long as crime statistics rise higher and higher and the german government still makes the politics of "open borders" (what I actually changed as soon as I had the powers to do so), people WILL NOT CHANGE. The climate in Germany is so hysterical, especially from the left side, that as soon as you mention statistics you are a racist (happens every day). That is part of the reason why the right parties are on the rise, as they are in Sweden, France, the Netherlands (hello @ Geert Wilders) and Austria, Eastern Europe never welcomed refugees in the first place. People are being sick called a racist when a large group of the people that come here are making EVERYTHING much worse. And because they cant look into the heart and the brain of the refugees, they say:
"Better safe than sorry."
And I cant judge them for that, because Germany as a country is not gaining ANYTHING, the society is not gaining ANYTHING and the individual people in Germany are also not gaining a lot, while we risk our culture, our safety, our wealth and the whole European idea.

So, what must happen to solve the problem?!


You literally typed my mind into your post. Cheers mate.
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30 Jul 2018, 22:03

Sure! It's just that, in the process, he unfortunately also failed to acknowledge the existance and prevalance of actual racism, as has been a common theme ITT.

It's about the whole picture; not one half, or the other.
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Germany Lukas_L99
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30 Jul 2018, 22:19

zoom wrote:Sure! It's just that, in the process, he unfortunately also failed to acknowledge the existance and prevalance of actual racism, as has been a common theme ITT.

It's about the whole picture; not one half, or the other.


Why would he need to acknowledge the existance of actual racism if he didn't deny it in the first place?
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Tuvalu gibson
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31 Jul 2018, 00:17

Is there someone who can actually post statistics from a reliable source which show that, on average, a non European immigrant is more prone to criminal activity? And when I say a reliable source I mean something which explains its method of testing and uses a sound method, not, for example, infowars
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31 Jul 2018, 00:43

gibson wrote:Is there someone who can actually post statistics from a reliable source which show that, on average, a non European immigrant is more prone to criminal activity? And when I say a reliable source I mean something which explains its method of testing and uses a sound method, not, for example, infowars

Im not sure if you seriously doubt that this is not the case. Anyways 2017 official crime statistic in germany have registered that 8.5 % of all crimes are commited by refugees while they make up only 2 % of the population. In fields like rape,robbery and grievous bodily harm numbers are even higher at 15 % - 15.9 %.
How is this statistic being made? Actually quite simple its from all the filed police reports in germany during 1 year. Obviously there are problems with this statistics because it only takes those crimes in to account that have been registered by the police. Particularly in rape cases its being assumed that the dark figure is much higher. But I think its a solid indication.

Furthermore since the big refugee waves of 2015 and 16 registered crime is at an all time high compared to the numbers before the years of 2015 and 16. While the number of overall crimes is decreasing slowly since those peak years. Heavy crimes such as rape heavy assault etc. are steadily rising.

Now anyone with a brain can figure out that theres a distinct correlation between refugees/ immigrants and crime.
Also the most famous econocmi scientist calculated that the refugees alone will cost germany roughly 300 billion euro over the next decades, mainly because they are uneducated and cant be integrated into the jobmarket. Meaning that the social welfare state has to pay for them. ( numbers for people who get aid from the welfare state are also significantly higher for immigrants and refugees realitve to the overall population ( think its somewhere at 20+ % while only 8.5 % have a migration background).

in Summary theres clear evidence that unlimited migration and taking up refugees is bad for a country
Its really a no brainer that in general people are sceptical towards this and its not really racism. No one wants to give up a better living standard when he gains nothing in return and thats basically it. Ofc theres also people that just hate people from muslim nations / other nations.

I could link you the references but im afraid they are in german, but those are official numbers from the goverment.
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Tuvalu gibson
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31 Jul 2018, 00:47

lordraphael wrote:
gibson wrote:Is there someone who can actually post statistics from a reliable source which show that, on average, a non European immigrant is more prone to criminal activity? And when I say a reliable source I mean something which explains its method of testing and uses a sound method, not, for example, infowars

Im not sure if you seriously doubt that this is not the case. Anyways 2017 official crime statistic in germany have registered that 8.5 % of all crimes are commited by refugees while they make up only 2 % of the population. In fields like rape,robbery and grievous bodily harm numbers are even higher at 15 % - 15.9 %.
How is this statistic being made? Actually quite simple its from all the filed police reports in germany during 1 year. Obviously there are problems with this statistics because it only takes those crimes in to account that have been registered by the police. Particularly in rape cases its being assumed that the dark figure is much higher. But I think its a solid indication.

Furthermore since the big refugee waves of 2015 and 16 registered crime is at an all time high compared to the numbers before the years of 2015 and 16. While the number of overall crimes is decreasing slowly since those peak years. Heavy crimes such as rape heavy assault etc. are steadily rising.

Now anyone with a brain can figure out that theres a distinct correlation between refugees/ immigrants and crime.
Also the most famous econocmi scientist calculated that the refugees alone will cost germany roughly 300 billion euro over the next decades, mainly because they are uneducated and cant be integrated into the jobmarket. Meaning that the social welfare state has to pay for them. ( numbers for people who get aid from the welfare state are also significantly higher for immigrants and refugees realitve to the overall population ( think its somewhere at 20+ % while only 8.5 % have a migration background).

in Summary theres clear evidence that unlimited migration and taking up refugees is bad for a country
Its really a no brainer that in general people are sceptical towards this and its not really racism. No one wants to give up a better living standard when he gains nothing in return and thats basically it. Ofc theres also people that just hate people from muslim nations / other nations.

I could link you the references but im afraid they are in german, but those are official numbers from the goverment.
Well clearly im unsure thats the case otherwise I wouldn't have asked. I also asked for a source, which there is not in your post.
Germany lordraphael
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31 Jul 2018, 00:53

gibson wrote:
lordraphael wrote:
gibson wrote:Is there someone who can actually post statistics from a reliable source which show that, on average, a non European immigrant is more prone to criminal activity? And when I say a reliable source I mean something which explains its method of testing and uses a sound method, not, for example, infowars

Im not sure if you seriously doubt that this is not the case. Anyways 2017 official crime statistic in germany have registered that 8.5 % of all crimes are commited by refugees while they make up only 2 % of the population. In fields like rape,robbery and grievous bodily harm numbers are even higher at 15 % - 15.9 %.
How is this statistic being made? Actually quite simple its from all the filed police reports in germany during 1 year. Obviously there are problems with this statistics because it only takes those crimes in to account that have been registered by the police. Particularly in rape cases its being assumed that the dark figure is much higher. But I think its a solid indication.

Furthermore since the big refugee waves of 2015 and 16 registered crime is at an all time high compared to the numbers before the years of 2015 and 16. While the number of overall crimes is decreasing slowly since those peak years. Heavy crimes such as rape heavy assault etc. are steadily rising.

Now anyone with a brain can figure out that theres a distinct correlation between refugees/ immigrants and crime.
Also the most famous econocmi scientist calculated that the refugees alone will cost germany roughly 300 billion euro over the next decades, mainly because they are uneducated and cant be integrated into the jobmarket. Meaning that the social welfare state has to pay for them. ( numbers for people who get aid from the welfare state are also significantly higher for immigrants and refugees realitve to the overall population ( think its somewhere at 20+ % while only 8.5 % have a migration background).

in Summary theres clear evidence that unlimited migration and taking up refugees is bad for a country
Its really a no brainer that in general people are sceptical towards this and its not really racism. No one wants to give up a better living standard when he gains nothing in return and thats basically it. Ofc theres also people that just hate people from muslim nations / other nations.

I could link you the references but im afraid they are in german, but those are official numbers from the goverment.
Well clearly im unsure thats the case otherwise I wouldn't have asked. I also asked for a source, which there is not in your post.

because its in german but i think i pretty much explained the method being used and the numbers arent off
https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitge ... erer-opfer
https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInformati ... _node.html here look it up yourself maybe theres even an english version if youre lucky
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Tuvalu gibson
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31 Jul 2018, 01:11

Interesting. It said the majority of crimes committed by immigrants were committed by young men, who for any ethnic group are probably the most criminal. I wonder what proportion of immigrants are young males. If it's a low proportion than they are more violent than the numbers suggest, if its a high proportion they could not be more violent than average Europeans. Interestingly it said that while crime rose in 2015 and 2016 it dropped by 10% in 2017. Also a rise in the number of crimes is expected when you add hundreds of thousands of people. It will significantly rise even if the people added are less prone to crime than the original population. Crime per capita is a much more telling factor. It also says immigrants were much more likely to be the victims of crime than an average person, which is interesting. I would assume that that would cause more crimes by immigrants as well. Anyway, its undeniable that it costs a lot of money to take people in, which is certainly bad for the country. I guess it just depends where a persons priorities are in terms of being nationalistic vs globalistic.
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Germany Lukas_L99
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31 Jul 2018, 01:45

Another source which specifically reports crime in context of immigration in 2016: https://www.bka.de/DE/AktuelleInformati ... _node.html

"Interesting" facts:

Crimes against the sexual self-determination:
Spoiler

9,1% of at least one suspected immigrant, even though they make up ~2% of the total population.

Crimes against the sexual self-determination by nationality:
Spoiler

318,7% (!) increase for people from Syria, 329,7% for people from Iran and 259,3% for people from Afghanistan.

And per 100.000 inhabitants:
Spoiler

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