Dear white people

[Gendarme]

No

[jgals]

im alright

[Googol]

Where's Sobieski when you need him now?

[91]

...
- Immigrants dont help the country they are going to. Most of them dont know how to read, they dont speak german or english, they have no education and they have no clue about the culture.
...
- Its 30 times more expensive to help refugees here in Germany than it is to help them survive in their native countries.
...

Good post, only these things made me think.

Maybe it was a typo meant to be "read german" but at least 7 years ago 84% of adult Syrians knew how to read. For youths (15-24) it was 95%. Might have lost some youngsters because of the war, but I wouldn't say most don't know how to read are you sure that's the group of people that manage to flee that far? (took syrians as an example since germany got many syrians)

They probably get >30 times better life in Germany. But like you say, what's morally best? No perfect solution, but we can do both and we already are. I'm not sure if the money for international aid and integration are taken from the same account anyway

[blasdg]

Oh yeah you are right, I meant "read german". But I guess if you look at african refugees, even "read" would be appropriate, because actually over 60% of them dont know how to read even in their own language (the numbers are from the BAMF, the BundesAmt für Migration und Flüchtlinge - the german bureau for migration and refugees). My point still stands - they offer very little to zero value for any job market here and will need to be "saved" for their entire lifetime. Not a particulary nice deal if you ask me.

And the money for international aid and integration are taken from the same amount in the end, its all the money that the people of Germany earn. It is good to know though that we spend billions for helping bankrupt states (Greece, Italy Portugal, Spain, France in the very near future, thats the only reason Macron wants the Euro-Bonds) and in the end we just subsidize banks (also german banks). If we just stop denieing that the Euro is as dead as it can get and just let it crash and go back to national currencies (at least until all these states are debt free due to devaluing their national currency) then we dont have to waste that absurd amount of money and can spend it for stabilizing the african continent, helping refugees, get better integration programmes (also we germans have to change) etc.
But thats another story for another day I guess

[Radix_Lecti]

Immigration should be approached with facts and economic data, not with emotions .

Just as it seems illogical to hand out free money each month to second class citizens like ...
it would cost 10x more not to take care of them.
(Fill in blank with any subclass of German residents.)

You say many things which seem right but aren't factual.
My corrections:
1 Germany needs people.
2 Each euro spent on German immigrants returns 7-fold through taxes/future income.
3 The Euro as a single currency market is infinitely important to our national economy.
4 Europe carries ancient guilt towards Africa.

[blasdg]

sick jokes

[Gendarme]

Hard to tell if serious or not actually. Radix is a weird lad, always hard to read.

[Jam]

No

Yes

[lordraphael]

Immigration should be approached with facts and economic data, not with emotions .

Just as it seems illogical to hand out free money each month to second class citizens like ...
it would cost 10x more not to take care of them.
(Fill in blank with any subclass of German residents.)

You say many things which seem right but aren't factual.
My corrections:
1 Germany needs people.
2 Each euro spent on German immigrants returns 7-fold through taxes/future income.
3 The Euro as a single currency market is infinitely important to our national economy.
4 Europe carries ancient guilt towards Africa.

thats just not true. At least not for the immigrants we currently take in. You might be right for highly educated immigrants, tho id be interested into the source from where you get those numbers. Anyways, ill link a youtube video from a speech of hans werner sinn, germanys most famous economist currently where he talks about how much immigration costs germany now and in the future. ( i think you understand german, right ?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DApaXcH3Eo8

[Trollbjorn]

Immigration should be approached with facts and economic data, not with emotions .

Just as it seems illogical to hand out free money each month to second class citizens like ...
it would cost 10x more not to take care of them.
(Fill in blank with any subclass of German residents.)

You say many things which seem right but aren't factual.
My corrections:
1 Germany needs people.
2 Each euro spent on German immigrants returns 7-fold through taxes/future income.
3 The Euro as a single currency market is infinitely important to our national economy.
4 Europe carries ancient guilt towards Africa.

thats true. germany needs people. german people. with this "open borders everyone welcome" politics europe will get new "hitler" someday. then people will realise maybe its time to stop spamming immigants into their countrys but its gonna be too late.

[Goodspeed]

Similarly it's immigrants' fault Trump got voted into office.

Where's my facepalm emote?!

[blasdg]

Are you all serious? Either Radix is on Mescaline all the time or he is just stupid, he tells us to only take real facts into consideration and then has 4 points that he made out of thin air without ANYTHING to check his sources - hes trolling

In case its not a troll (I am probably just wasting my time but hey, got nothing else to do anyways):
1. Why does germany need people? For what exactly? Do less people equal lower standards? This is so general that I dont even know what to say. Yes, there are free jobs for highly educated people - the exact opposite that we get when importing tons of uneducated refugees. The problem is the stupid education system in Germany and not that we "need" people.
2. They dont pay taxes and wont have a future income because they can not be thrown onto the job market. They dont speak or read german, have no education at all or one that is barely comparable to a European one and we already have some kind of a "war" at the low-income end of the ladder. I think the worst thing that can happen is to flood the country with even more people that need to be fed for their entire lifetime.
3. Bullshit. The Euro splits Europe into the "wasted part" (Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, France) and the "still ok part" (Germany and some neighbours) and did not crash already because the ECB is throwing BILLIONS of Euros into the states FOR FREE every fucking month. Quantitative Easing is some kind of emergency measure for an otherwise dead patient. The people are losing an incredible amount of money every month due to the "0 pay tax" politics combinded with inflation. The only ones that are winning are the banks. Oh and btw what was before the Euro? Guys remember, we had total Chaos, War and Anarchy in Europe when we had national currencies. Remember? No? No, me neither.
4. There is no guilt that lasts through the ages/generations. Feel free to disagree but I dont care.

Hush hush, back into your corner!

@ Goodspeed:
Nothing from all of this is really the refugees' fault, there is a plethora of reasons why we have this situation - I guess you know that and just wanted to spit some hate with your facepalming?!

[Goodspeed]

I was replying to

europe will get new "hitler" someday. then people will realise maybe its time to stop spamming immigants into their countrys but its gonna be too late.

[blasdg]

Then I am even more confused, you are talking about immigrants and Trump and we talk about importing humans into Europe - where is the connection?

[stronk]

Are you all serious? Either Radix is on Mescaline all the time or he is just stupid, he tells us to only take real facts into consideration and then has 4 points that he made out of thin air without ANYTHING to check his sources - hes trolling

In case its not a troll (I am probably just wasting my time but hey, got nothing else to do anyways):
1. Why does germany need people? For what exactly? Do less people equal lower standards? This is so general that I dont even know what to say. Yes, there are free jobs for highly educated people - the exact opposite that we get when importing tons of uneducated refugees. The problem is the stupid education system in Germany and not that we "need" people.
2. They dont pay taxes and wont have a future income because they can not be thrown onto the job market. They dont speak or read german, have no education at all or one that is barely comparable to a European one and we already have some kind of a "war" at the low-income end of the ladder. I think the worst thing that can happen is to flood the country with even more people that need to be fed for their entire lifetime.
3. Bullshit. The Euro splits Europe into the "wasted part" (Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, France) and the "still ok part" (Germany and some neighbours) and did not crash already because the ECB is throwing BILLIONS of Euros into the states FOR FREE every fucking month. Quantitative Easing is some kind of emergency measure for an otherwise dead patient. The people are losing an incredible amount of money every month due to the "0 pay tax" politics combinded with inflation. The only ones that are winning are the banks. Oh and btw what was before the Euro? Guys remember, we had total Chaos, War and Anarchy in Europe when we had national currencies. Remember? No? No, me neither.
4. There is no guilt that lasts through the ages/generations. Feel free to disagree but I dont care.

Hush hush, back into your corner!

@ Goodspeed:
Nothing from all of this is really the refugees' fault, there is a plethora of reasons why we have this situation - I guess you know that and just wanted to spit some hate with your facepalming?!

Germany needs young people who work and pay taxes because of the demographical change. Young refugees could fill that role. However, refugees will probably not be the solution to the demographical change. They could influence it positively though.

[Goodspeed]

Then I am even more confused, you are talking about immigrants and Trump and we talk about importing humans into Europe - where is the connection?

He made the point that, with too much immigration, we'll end up electing another Hitler. Trump, who won the election in large part because of his stance on immigration or rather his blatant white nationalism, is arguably an even worse person to have leading your country than Hitler. Maybe 80 years ago he would've got away with genocide against Mexicans. He wouldn't mind a nice big war and his voters sure wouldn't give a crap about brown people.
And, of course, when we elect crappy leaders it's immigrants' fault.

[blasdg]

Refugees are definitely not the solution to a demographical problem - if there even is one. Think a moment about digitalisation, 20-40 % of all the people will be jobless in the future (thats just a guess from german politics and the media) so demographic changes dont mean shit because you will need to change the whole tax/pension-system anyways. There is NO reason at all to import criminals or low educated people who increaese the risk of having a cultural war between muslim/christian people.

@ Goodspeed:
He is completely right. If the immigrants are actually such a problem and our politicians at the moment dont give a fuck, what other choice is there? Of course the people will elect some radical parties at some point that will try to "solve" the problem with brutality. For me there is really no other way if everything continues the way it is right now. Still, its not the fault of the immigrants, its not their fault being born in Africa or having no chance to get a proper education. Nobody said that btw, so your comparison with Trump is kinda wrong. Also I am not sure if he really won the election because of his nationalism, I think there was much more behind this.

Just read that you edited:
LOL if you really think that Trump is anyway near Hitler/Stalin/Mao. You gotta be kidding. Also Trump advocates a GENOCIDE gainst Mexicans? I dont know dude, seems you need a little bit of fresh air

[Goodspeed]

Sure, I think he could've been that bad if he had been elected in the 30's. What makes you think that's impossible? The guy is an opportunist, a racist and clearly cares about no one but himself. I never said he advocates genocide. Did I offend your inner Trump or something?

(I wish the air was fresh)

He is completely right.

And I didn't disagree. Yes, immigrants are a great tool for far right populism.

Still, its not the fault of the immigrants, its not their fault being born in Africa or having no chance to get a proper education. Nobody said that btw,

It's what I, perhaps wrongly, inferred from the context. Anyway, closing your borders in fear of far right parties being elected means you're resigning to the threat of populism and actually letting it win. Rather your focus should be on creating a political environment where it's not a viable strategy. Hard to get around though, that kind of populism really seems to speak to people's sense of superiority.

so your comparison with Trump is kinda wrong.

My comparison to Trump didn't hinge on things being the fault of immigrants.

[Radix_Lecti]

I'm an Angel, not a troll.

[psychonautics]

It's what I, perhaps wrongly, inferred from the context. Anyway, closing your borders in fear of far right parties being elected means you're resigning to the threat of populism and actually letting it win. Rather your focus should be on creating a political environment where it's not a viable strategy. Hard to get around though, that kind of populism really seems to speak to people's sense of superiority.

How would you create this environment? This environment is created by actual politics, the "people's" daily lifes and fears, the media, reception of media, reception of history, countermovements and many more things. Closing the borders is as fatal as a signal as leaving it completely open.

[Goodspeed]

How would you create this environment?

Striving for (more) economic equality would be a start. We're going in the opposite direction currently, and populism is popping up everywhere as a result.

[Gendarme]

Get rid of your fiat while you still can, lads.

[gamevideo113]

Get rid of your fiat while you still can, lads.

Don't worry, fiat is already getting rid of itself on its own

[Snuden]

https://youtu.be/VH3koxGaHaQ