blasdg wrote:I completely understand your point @ umeu and you are right, of course poverty, lack of education, wrong expectations when coming to Europe, mistreatment by the people that helped them to get to Europe, different socialization etc. are the true reasons why immigrants are much more often criminals than germans are.
And I also acknowledge that you kind of deny people the chance to prove that they are actually decdent humans by looking at the statistics.
But then tell me what to do. Because these statistics, they dont lie.
There are different things being discussed in this thread, and what we started with was based mostly on the conditions in America (and a little bit on the conditions in the Netherlands, belgium and france), which are very different and not really comparable to what's happening in Germany (and maybe scandinavia, I don't know enough to say) at the moment. If you're really interested then you could read this book: I was told to come alone by Souad Mekhennet, a German journalist with Moroccan/Turkish heritage. Tbh it doesn't just provide a very well written account of what's happening at the moment with ISIS, immigration etc, but it's also just a very well written book.
1) If I own a company and have to hire people, I will STILL always go for the german. Simply because I need to make money and cant be worried about problems that might occur with a much much higher propability if I take the syrian worker. Understandable from my pint of view and it has nothing to do with race or gender or smell.
3) I can tell you at least 20 cities in Germany that have MASSIVE problems with immigrants. No-go-areas (politicians denied their existence a few years ago but now it is just too obvious), dead people pretty much every week. I can tell you that the rate of sexual crimes skyrocketed. I can tell you that the rate of young women getting literally raped to death has skyrocketed. I can tell you that a baby was beheaded (!!!) in Hamburg, at daytime! I can tell you that things like "Silvester 2015 Köln" and other gang-rape parties and/or "discussions between huge families" (quote of a german police dude) are on the rise. Everybody can look this up, I am not talking out of my arse. Knowing all that I am just waaaay more careful when being alone in the dark, especially as a woman (im not btw.). I try to avoid contact with foreigners as much as I can outside and I always think: "Better safe than sorry". This again has nothing to do with race or gender or smell - but with statistics and the will to live. And I can tell you, I wholeheartedly agree with everyone who tells me that he/she is extra important when talking to strangers. You can call that racism - but I simply dont agree and will ignore people who tell me to just "get along with them". Because I dont want to be the next person who newspapers write about. I am not willing to risk my life when all I get on exchange is that some random dude stops calling me a racist
Yes, I can see what you're trying to say. But the last part you say just isn't true. It does have to do with ethnicity as well.
Look, there's nothing wrong with compiling statistics and using these statistics to highlight a problem, obviously assuming those statistics are sincere and don't lack in integrity (Which more than often is the case, not just race statistics, but just statistics in general). So when you say Syrian immigrants have been involved in violent crime more often compared to other population groups, that's not discrimination.
But when you then think of every Syrian you meet as a violent criminal, you are discriminating against that person based on ethnicity, which perhaps for a lack of a better word, we call racism at the moment.
Some people are angry and afraid, and perhaps they have good reasons for it. Nonetheless, the attitude you've described, while intuitive perhaps, is only going to make matters worse. If people don't learn to live together and are instead split down such hostile lines, there's gonna be genocide at some point, history is full of these examples. In order to avoid that it takes an effort from both sides.
2) Maybe something more from my personal life: I work at university as a Ph.D student in Chemistry and we have a lot of people who want to write their bachelor thesis or master thesis or whatever thesis they need. If I have the choice between a german and, say, a Chinese and both have comparable grades and are not completely retarded when speaking to them - guess what? My boss will tell me to pick the german. Mostly because of language issues that often arise when dealing with foreigners. Again, its not about race or gender or smell - its just far far less convenient in terms of working together to pick a Chinese man/woman instead of a german. Racism?
No, this isn't necessarily racism or racial/ethnic discrimination because the process of differentiation isn't based on ethnicity. I mean, perhaps if there had been a test for language proficiency, and both of them had scored equally on that test, or even more so if the Chinese student had scored higher on that test, then a case for discrimination could've been made. It could definitely be made in the case of both students having been born/grown up in Germany and attended all levels of German education. In that case there's no reason to choose for the German student over the German student with Chinese heritage. Sadly, this type of racism does happen all too often, and it's the type of racism that I think was intended to be the point of discussion when GS made this thread.
What must happen to solve the problem?
I can tell you one thing that is true for Germany from my experience: As long as crime statistics rise higher and higher and the german government still makes the politics of "open borders" (what I actually changed as soon as I had the powers to do so), people WILL NOT CHANGE. The climate in Germany is so hysterical, especially from the left side, that as soon as you mention statistics you are a racist (happens every day). That is part of the reason why the right parties are on the rise, as they are in Sweden, France, the Netherlands (hello @ Geert Wilders) and Austria, Eastern Europe never welcomed refugees in the first place. People are being sick called a racist when a large group of the people that come here are making EVERYTHING much worse. And because they cant look into the heart and the brain of the refugees, they say:
"Better safe than sorry."
And I cant judge them for that, because Germany as a country is not gaining ANYTHING, the society is not gaining ANYTHING and the individual people in Germany are also not gaining a lot, while we risk our culture, our safety, our wealth and the whole European idea.
So, what must happen to solve the problem?![
It's not wrong at all to say that open border immigration is a problem, it's definitely not racist by definition, but very often there's also racism involved by people who oppose it. But I see no reason why Germany can't have a political party that discusses these matters and proposes solutions without discriminating. In the Netherlands we have Geert Wilders and then we have the VVD. Basically the difference between a party which downright discriminates, and a party that is against immigration (for the most part) but at least tries to debate it in a more rational way.
In any case, short of committing genocide (genocide isn't always killing but can also mean forced deportation), a realistic solution has to be either integration, assimilation or segregation.
I personally think that any successful integrative immigration policy should prevent that people cluster together, should include mandatory language learning (but it has to be well organised, I think the state has this responsibility, and the immigrant is responsible for showing up.) and a job program.