Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

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Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by fightinfrenchman »

If you haven't noticed, in the past few years many countries have began moving away from the classic liberal international order towards stupid nationalism and illiberal democracies. It may not seem as obvious as the liberal democracy vs. Communism of the Cold War, but we are absolutely living in a world where liberal democracy is in battle with fascism.

It's important to not be on the wrong side of this debate (fascism obviously being the wrong part). You should not accept nationalism & hatred towards minority groups.

I know there are many people here on these forums who support what is essentially the first step toward fascism (and that's being generous). I just want to make it clear that that's not a good thing for you to do.

Thoughts?
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

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Lol, did you start a discussion without defining terms?
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by fightinfrenchman »

deleted_user wrote:Lol, did you start a discussion without defining terms?


The terms are already well-defined if you're willing to look them up.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by deleted_user »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Lol, did you start a discussion without defining terms?


The terms are already well-defined if you're willing to look them up.

Then they're defined outside this context. If those definitions are acceptable, cite them here.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Jam »

deleted_user wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Lol, did you start a discussion without defining terms?


The terms are already well-defined if you're willing to look them up.

Then they're defined outside this context. If those definitions are acceptable, cite them here.
liberalism is good and fascism is bad.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Jam wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
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Then they're defined outside this context. If those definitions are acceptable, cite them here.
liberalism is good and fascism is bad.


That's pretty much right, yesh!
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Liberal Democracy is essentially what many people believe "democracy" to mean: you can vote, but not just that; you're voting in real, competitive elections with multiple possible candidates, and you have certain rights (freedom of speech, freedom to protest, etc.) already guaranteed. A fascist, as described by Madeleine Albright, is "someone who claims to speak for a whole nation or group, is utterly unconcerned with the rights of others, and is willing to use violence and whatever other means are necessary to achieve the goals he or she might have.”
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by deleted_user »

I don't think anyone on the forums would agree with 2).

You either think members are being hoodwinked or are by all our possible accounts, immoral.

Well, I'm not saying you're wrong. But which is more correct?

Or, are incredibly complex political stances, bridging numerous economic, social, cultural, ethnic stances harder to quantify than this? Are real-world workings not so simple?

Is the above a good excuse to be apathetic or harbor hate-buoying philosophies?
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by fightinfrenchman »

deleted_user wrote:I don't think anyone on the forums would agree with 2).

You either think members are being hoodwinked or are by all our possible accounts, immoral.

Well, I'm not saying you're wrong. But which is more correct?

Or, are incredibly complex political stances, bridging numerous economic, social, cultural, ethnic stances harder to qualify than that?


I would imagine that @Papist would agree with the definition of fascists. If others would not agree with it, it's not because the definition is bad, it's because they don't want to be associated with a widely-maligned group as they spread their white nationalist ideology.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Jam »

deleted_user wrote:Lol, language sucks.
Language is a trap, words and grammars can cause you to make assumptions and think in a certain framework without noticing that you've been tricked. Language is meant to describe reality with the starting point being what is actually happening, anyone who invents a framework of language and views reality through that lense is working backwards.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by deleted_user »

Jam wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Lol, language sucks.
Language is a trap, words and grammars can cause you to make assumptions and think in a certain framework without noticing that you've been tricked. Language is meant to describe reality with the starting point being what is actually happening, anyone who invents a framework of language and views reality through that lense is working backwards.

Well, language just communicated your point, or it didn't, to which point it's pointless. But with all things, it's just somewhere inbetween.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Snuden »

This thread belong in the meme section.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Goodspeed »

This is great. I just read an amazing article about this very subject and was going to post a thread about it, but then saw this one. Great timing ear

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... on/568324/

A true test of your attention span, but a great read.

The article makes the case or at least implies that, rather than openly agreeing with fascist ideology, people often get pushed into supporting it after a fascist party uses lies to gain power. Believing the lies, these people will then condone fascist behaviour because they believe they're on the same side as the fascists. Trump is a great example of this but it's nothing new.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Gendarme »

Unfortunately I was born in the current millennium and can only read for 30 seconds straight.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Goodspeed »

A shame. I think you in particular need to hear what it has to say about conspiracy theories.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Gendarme »

Make that 25 seconds.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Dr. D1CK »

I don’t want to worry anyone but my sources tell me fightinfrenchman is literally the founder of isis.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Gendarme »

inb4 comm team member interjects with "Isis is a goddess".
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:I have a feeling your definition of fascism is much broader than the actual definition


How do you define it?
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by XeeleeFlower »

Dr. D1CK wrote:I don’t want to worry anyone but my sources tell me fightinfrenchman is literally the founder of isis.
fightinfrenchman wrote:The founder of ISIS is indeed on these forums, but he's not me
Knock it off with this shit. I'm on vacation damnit!
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Goodspeed »

More detail on what happened in Hungary: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... nism-trump

Because I hadn't tested your attention span enough.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Snuden »

It's a trend spreading across Europe, people are fed up with "diversity"

They are fed up with;

- Having their car burned.
- Entire shopping centers being closed due to openly visible gang activity (shops and businesses closing as a result)
- Education and healthcare budgets being cut.
- Street gangs harassing citizens.
- Traditional celebrations (for example Christmas) being phased out in kindergartens and schools.
- Entire areas being off-limit for the police to operate in.
- Etc...

Consequently they vote for the extreme opposition, which is equally dangerous.

Editors note: I personally completely fail to see how mass immigration can make any country better, it's not like a native European can't find a kebab recipe on youtube and copy that.
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Re: Life Tip of the Day 9: Make sure to join the liberal side of the liberalism vs. fascism debate

Post by Goodspeed »

This isn't even about immigration, immigration is just one of the things these anti-democratic politicians use to gain power. There is a lot of irrational fear in Europe about us losing our national identities to a couple of immigrants, and this is abused shamelessly to get votes. In Hungary it was never even a problem, and yet the people there think it is. Currently, about 2 refugees cross the border per day which is a total nonissue but because the state owns 90% of the national media outlets and uses these outlets to spread its propaganda, people who don't read any more than their local newspaper continue to think it's a huge issue. Meanwhile, the real problem is that the country's leadership rewrote the constitution immediately after winning 2/3 of the house, did some serious gerrymandering and controls all of the country's richest people by way of threatening to implement regulations that target them specifically. Hungary is not a democracy, even though it may look like one at first glance.

The exact same thing is happening in America. At least the world is paying attention now, though. The question is how complicit is the GOP, and how far are they willing to go? Trump is not competent enough to ride his victory home the way Orbán did in Hungary and turn the USA into a fascist "democracy", but the GOP, realising that this is a way forward for them, may try the same thing with a stronger candidate 6 or 10 years from now.

Steve Bannon knew all this and used it to get Trump elected. He's in Europe now, building his movement. As Ear said, it's a global phenomenon. Don't allow yourself to fall into the trap of supporting a fascist because you are scared of a couple of Muslims.

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