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Netherlands momuuu
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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I gave up on politics. NL's system might be better than that of the USA but it's not by much. We need a revolution soon.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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Why is the Dutch political spectrum so fragmented? Something similar can be seen in Belgium. But not in France or in other neighbouring countries.

13 political parties in the Dutch parliament... Can't think of another European country with as many parties represented in the parliament. A bit crazy.

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Netherlands momuuu
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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Probably because we don't elect a president like many other countries. Rather, a coalition of different parties is formed. That means that unlike in america, a fringe party that might only get 2% of votes can actually matter. This makes the system much less all in on the big parties. And given that the opinion of the people can't usually be summarized by 2-3 big parties, the small parties are likely to gain some traction because they represent a specific opinion and because they will matter even if they are small.

And that means that there is a huge variety of parties. Liberal (VVD), progressive (D66), conservative christian (CDA), and two other christian varieties which value religious slightly more (CU and SGP, the latter being pretty extreme). Then there's three big left parties, PvdA (pretty generic left), GL (green left), SP (they strike me as populist left tbh). We also have two populist parties (PVV and the supposedly more sophisticated FvD). And then there is some fringe parties like 50plus (people that think older people need even more money), Pvdd (animal/environment party), DENK (muslim party lol, feelsbadman). I think that should cover all current parties. There's a lot of variety and actually not much overlap. So it kinda makes sense.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

Great news everybody
https://youtu.be/ihZRS289AyM
This candidate is just super imo. Between her and Bernie, I really would have a hard time choosing. As a former soldier, she is really skeptical to US military involvment all over the world.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

@spanky4ever you should read up on her foreign policy, which is what separates her from Bernie since I will agree, her domestic policies are pretty good. Here’s an article to start with
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tuls ... atic-party
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

iwillspankyou wrote:Great news everybody

This candidate is just super imo. Between her and Bernie, I really would have a hard time choosing. As a former soldier, she is really skeptical to US military involvment all over the world.


As someone who loves to tout Bernie's consistency, how can you even consider support her?
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

Well she is basically an upgraded Obama on issues. She has moved to the left on domestic issues but supports Neoliberal authoritarians across the globe and wants to clean the world of "extremists" using drones, regardless of the costs.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

n0el wrote: Neoliberal authoritarians


Reeeeee
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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You don't think Modi is a neoliberal with authoritarian tendencies? @fightinfrenchman
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

n0el wrote:You don't think Modi is a neoliberal with authoritarian tendencies? @fightinfrenchman


hmm, who is Modi? I am not following :unsure:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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India PM
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

n0el wrote:Well she is basically an upgraded Obama on issues. She has moved to the left on domestic issues but supports Neoliberal authoritarians across the globe and wants to clean the world of "extremists" using drones, regardless of the costs.


That is ONE article, and I am used to smears from media. I found the article speculative on many accounts. For instance associating her with a conservative father like that, as if she inherited his views. Secondly, talking about her somewhat conservative thinking way back, even if she has changed her mindset and gone to the left, time and time over.
I do like that she is anti-interventionist, and I think the USA would benefit from cutting back on the war they fight, and some of the 800 military bases all over the world.

Here she is with her own words, talking about the prospect of the USA going to war with Iran

https://youtu.be/-tstGvNwyGU

https://youtu.be/POq5Rbxff2E

If ppl on the far right also like some of her views on things, that should not disqualify her, if ppl in general also share those views.
But I need to know more about her.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

She’s anti sending troops places but she is very pro drones. Basically what Obama did.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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n0el wrote:She’s anti sending troops places but she is very pro drones. Basically what Obama did.

Do you have some links you can add, underline that claim?
In your post above, you also say she is supporting neo-liberal authoritarian regimes across the globe. I do not know what you are referring to here. I do think she was very sceptical to US involvement in Syria, and the attempt to overturn the Syrian government. That does not necessarily mean that she is supporting Assad though, merely that she is not in favour of US trying to overturn yet another countries leadership.
As far as I can tell, she is very sceptical to US support of Saudi Arabia, and against USA involvement in Yemen, and many other wars the US fights without congressional approval.
She was sceptical to the Iran deal, but got on board and supported it, when her questions about the deal, where answered. She was also very against Trump administration pulling out of the Iran deal.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

iwillspankyou wrote:
n0el wrote:She’s anti sending troops places but she is very pro drones. Basically what Obama did.

Do you have some links you can add, to underline that claim?

This is a good article that addresses the concerns from the left.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/ ... -left.html
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

:hmm:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

Also if you look up her gay rights stance, she was aggressively anti gay rights. I don’t really trust her position evolved that much rather than for politics purposes.

Edit: @fightinfrenchman got there first
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

fightinfrenchman wrote::hmm:


I do not know how old that clip is, but she has changed her views on gay right - a long time ago.
So have many other politicians, and who would have guessed, 10 years back, that gay marrige would be allowed in the USA?

https://youtu.be/6I1-r1YgK9I

Times have changed, BIGGLY :love:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

But I am looking forward to the debates, where Tulsie Gabbard will defend her stance on issues.

https://youtu.be/YmOiZNk8VYQ

this is pretty alarming, I admit. But we will surely hear her trying to explain issues like this.
Until then I will have an open mind about her
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Your argument was that Bernie was good because his policies have remained consistent, now you're arguing the opposite
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by spanky4ever »

fightinfrenchman wrote:Your argument was that Bernie was good because his policies have remained consistent, now you're arguing the opposite

yes, I do believe ppl should def change their opinions, faces with new evidence and new circumstances - of course. To not do that would be named rigid at best, crazy at worst. That is not the same thing as flip-flopping all the time.
I do congratulate Sanders for being consistent though, and being on the side of ordinary ppl, all this time. :love:
welcome to the world that is not black or white :lol:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by momuuu »

n0el wrote:Well she is basically an upgraded Obama on issues. She has moved to the left on domestic issues but supports Neoliberal authoritarians across the globe and wants to clean the world of "extremists" using drones, regardless of the costs.

To be fair, in an ideal communist society religion needs to be purged.
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by n0el »

Depends what you want
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Post by kami_ryu »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
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Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

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